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New Jecklin Float QA !!! - Page 26

post #376 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin40 View Post

   Hope you will ask for a postage refund?

Notice this thread has gone well off topic duggehsmile.png

Hope they return before Xmas

 

Manfred said he'd reimburse me for shipping costs, thankfully. They seem to be stepping up their game in customer service, responding to my e-mails very quickly, which is good. I feel more confident now.

 

I asked if he had some idea as to what the issue was, since it seems to be happening with other folks, and is probably due to the design like analogsurviver says. I want to make sure they actually work to fix the issue, rather than just swap my QA for a new set that could develop the exact same problem. He said he'd have a better idea of what was going on after he had them to look at, so I'll wait and see what he says.

 

What I'm most worried about still is what Sam reported: his second pair sounded lifeless compared to the first. I actually debated ordering a second set in case there was variation among units and the new one didn't sound as good. That's how much I've fallen in love with the sound of these.

 

* * * * * * *

 

Listening to certain other headphones after hearing the Floats, one really gets a sense of how "closed in" they sound versus the open design of the Floats, what amounts to speaker panels on the sides of your head more or less. Other devices that have similar effects in my experience are the Stax SR-Sigma and Omega, the K1000, the TakeT H2+, and the Qualia 010. With the exception of the Stax however, the Float QA has the best overall tonal balance of these headphones in my opinion. The K1000 and Q010 are a little too bright and the TakeT is a little too bass-heavy. The TakeT also has a very unique sound that is difficult for me to fully articulate and is unlike any other headphone I've heard since, a result of the piezoelectric film methinks. It gives them an uncanny sense of presence similar to speakers. The Float QA sounds more effortless however, a trait more in keeping with electrostats.

 

I am curious to finally try the Precide ERGO AMT, since it shares some lineage with the Floats. It uses a totally different type of technology in its drivers, which actually put it closer to the TakeT than the Float QA. From what I gather however, the ERGO AMT is very bass light unlike the TakeT and Float QA. All three of these headphones need a dedicated setup to sound best though, and the dedicated amp that Precide makes, the Model 2, is said to bring the ERGO AMT up to another level of performance entirely. It's very expensive however, costing almost as much as the whole Float set just for the amp.

 

I'd love to compare the Float QA, ERGO AMT, and TakeT H2+ side-by-side however.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

Taket H2 back on line?

 

I was speaking with some folks about a possible partnership between TakeT and Fidelix, which Currawong mentioned in his headphone festival impressions, and it seems like it's going to happen. They'll be offering a dedicated H2+ amp, which I'm looking forward to since the TR2 really limits their potential.

post #377 of 663

I was speaking with some folks about a possible partnership between TakeT and Fidelix, which Currawong mentioned in his headphone festival impressions, and it seems like it's going to happen. They'll be offering a dedicated H2+ amp, which I'm looking forward to since the TR2 really limits their potential.

    This is brilliant idea.  Hope that they can combine with the transformer that can be used with the Jecklin or the Precide.

    Please also have the speaker posts like the Jecklin power supply (transformer) has so that we can use and compare with

AKG K1000 or HE6 or other difficult headphones too.

 

Listening to certain other headphones after hearing the Floats, one really gets a sense of how "closed in" they sound versus the open design of the Floats, what amounts to speaker panels on the sides of your head more or less. Other devices that have similar effects in my experience are the Stax SR-Sigma and Omega, the K1000, the TakeT H2+, and the Qualia 010. With the exception of the Stax however, the Float QA has the best overall tonal balance of these headphones in my opinion. The K1000 and Q010 are a little too bright and the TakeT is a little too bass-heavy

     I don't have the Stax Sigma  but I can compare others that were mentioned when my preamplifier arrive.  I do agree that the Qualia 010

is a little too bright but in my setup the AKG1000 is behaving well.   I hope my aristaeus + Preamplifier gain can drive the SR Omega or

009 more effectively as they are more difficult to drive than the HE90, not to mention the O2mkI which I think I need to drive with Stax 727A (Spritzer modded).   SR Omega is also another neutral phone with good tonal balance as I recall but I need to compare directly

to know .  I think it also has very good  bass too.

 

 

Hope that your Jecklin arrives soon in good shape.  Can't wait to hear your impressions more


Edited by kiertijai - 12/3/12 at 6:06am
post #378 of 663
Quote:

I am curious to finally try the Precide ERGO AMT, since it shares some lineage with the Floats. It uses a totally different type of technology in its drivers, which actually put it closer to the TakeT than the Float QA. From what I gather however, the ERGO AMT is very bass light unlike the TakeT and Float QA. All three of these headphones need a dedicated setup to sound best though, and the dedicated amp that Precide makes, the Model 2, is said to bring the ERGO AMT up to another level of performance entirely. It's very expensive however, costing almost as much as the whole Float set just for the amp.

 

I'd love to compare the Float QA, ERGO AMT, and TakeT H2+ side-by-side however.

 

 

My Ergo AMT came with the AMP1 which is a 5 watt amp. the main chip inside was a generic stereo amp module with a filter network to make the headphones more linear.

They also came with a transformer box which is really a filter box with inductors and caps inside to tailor the power to the headephone similar to a speaker network to a midrange driver. Except that the Inductor/Capacitor network is there to boost bass rsponse and cut back the treble volume.

My take (from memeory) on the box was to allow switch in between capacitances from about 40 uF to 80uF (60Uf Nominal), and inductors from zero to twice the normal value.

This varied the bass & treble response  of the phones.

I must say that I didn't really test the box with the AMT at the extremities of bass & treble as I was distracted with some new aquisitions at that time.

I was going to use my W&G PM3 Sig Gen to check the differences the different switchings made at low and high frequencies. I guess in the end I was too caught up with building amps and listening to newer 'phones to get back to it.

I like the Ergo AMT, but having headphones you can just plug in instead of setting up the box to the speaker outputs of an amp means that the AMT doesn't see much use. Neither does the Taket H2.

 

I suspect the AMP2 is Class A with a frequency output tailored to the AMT.

post #379 of 663
Quote:
I suspect the AMP2 is Class A with a frequency output tailored to the AMT.

I guess an alternative would be to use a 1/3rd octave graphic equaliser and boost the bass & cut the treble.

All the equalisers I have built and heard color the sound even in the flat position.

This is proven when you have an equaliser with a bypass switch. The response is much more neutral.

 

I'll have to look in the back shed, as I should have 2 mono 32 band equalisers stashed in there somewhere.

post #380 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

I guess an alternative would be to use a 1/3rd octave graphic equaliser and boost the bass & cut the treble.

All the equalisers I have built and heard color the sound even in the flat position.

This is proven when you have an equaliser with a bypass switch. The response is much more neutral.

 

I'll have to look in the back shed, as I should have 2 mono 32 band equalisers stashed in there somewhere.

I've done just this with my AMT. I have a relatively nice Pioneer GR-777 EQ. The fact is that AMT is not going to give you deep bass no matter how much you EQ it. Lowering the response around 2 - 4 kHz, however, helps a lot. It makes AMT much more easy listening. Otherwise there is too much treble energy. 

 

I used to use the EQ without the Precide notch filter box but now I started to use the filter box again just to simplify my setup. 

 

I haven't used my AMT much after I purchased Lamda Nova Sigs. They are almost as good on the mids and highs (very close actually) and have much better bass response.

 

There is a lot of magic in the AMT and I would love to hear them with AMP2 but it's just way too expensive.

post #381 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuglyPhones View Post

I've done just this with my AMT. I have a relatively nice Pioneer GR-777 EQ. The fact is that AMT is not going to give you deep bass no matter how much you EQ it. Lowering the response around 2 - 4 kHz, however, helps a lot. It makes AMT much more easy listening. Otherwise there is too much treble energy. 

 

I used to use the EQ without the Precide notch filter box but now I started to use the filter box again just to simplify my setup. 

 

I haven't used my AMT much after I purchased Lamda Nova Sigs. They are almost as good on the mids and highs (very close actually) and have much better bass response.

 

There is a lot of magic in the AMT and I would love to hear them with AMP2 but it's just way too expensive.

To all the guys who want to use real ( not virtual software ) equalizer; it is the right way to do it, but it is the most expensive way to do it right. An equalizer was the most despised/unwanted component in a purist system back in the day - NOT without a reason. Most do impart loss of audio quality, transparency and dynamic range being the first and most easily audible victims. The cure is to replace each and every capacitor in the signal path with the best type that can still somehow/anyhow be phisiclly fitted within available space constraints ( and you can obtain it and pay for it, of course ). Expect the cost of such mod to be several hundreds $/EUR ! I use Technics SH-9010 Parametric 5 band equalizer ( one of the most, if not the most highly regarded equalizer ever made ) and after modification any detrimental sonic effect(s) that remain(s) is/are far outweighted by  the proper frequency response achieved. 

 

After all - where are you going to hear it all, be it good or bad, better than on a pair of headphones, or in case of this thread, earspeakers ?

post #382 of 663

Good point.....

post #383 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I was speaking with some folks about a possible partnership between TakeT and Fidelix, which Currawong mentioned in his headphone festival impressions, and it seems like it's going to happen. They'll be offering a dedicated H2+ amp, which I'm looking forward to since the TR2 really limits their potential.

I haven't been in touch with them since the show because I've been busy. Fidelix has a very nice DSD DAC as well. It instinctively seemed like an obvious pairing and I'm very glad now I suggested it. 

post #384 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

I haven't been in touch with them since the show because I've been busy. Fidelix has a very nice DSD DAC as well. It instinctively seemed like an obvious pairing and I'm very glad now I suggested it. 

Since DSD DACs still don't grow on trees nowadays, have you perhaps had chance to audition Felix DSD DAC ? I am eyeing Mytek 192/24/DSD DAC, most probably mastering version, but if something comparable at lower cost is now available, I am all ears.

post #385 of 663

Lets hope these problems get fixed quickly - From reading the German forums one or two other people are also experiencing problems http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showpost.php?p=110603&postcount=185

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I'm really bummed: I had a long post typed up, and before I could save it to the clipboard my browser crashed. Sh't sucks.

 

Anyway... I gave my Jecklin Float QA a sendoff by listening to it throughout the day yesterday. It'll be on its way back to the manufacturer for repairs.

 

I wont be so presumptuous as to call it an "endgame" device for me. I know myself well enough: I'm too fickle and restless for that. Still, as wrought with frustration as my brief period of ownership has been, I've gotten a massive amount of enjoyment from them. In fact, no other headphone has given me such a sense of satisfaction. At the risk of coming across as though I were spinning hype for these things, I'd personally take the Float QA over pretty much anything else right now, including the TakeT and SR-009. That's just me though. It speaks volumes I think when I look back and realize that I consistently went for the QA over anything else despite their being more or less broken.

 

Next to overall tonal balance (ie. not making my ears bleed), one of the most important qualities in a headphone---if not THE most important---is spatial character. I was just talking to kiteki about this. To earn my love, a headphone should have a sense of depth and not sound flat. This contributes to that elusive quality of "thereness" I've prattled on about in the past. To this end, the Float QA sounds effortless, open, and immersive. They take headphone listening closer to full-fledged speakers, which isn't too surprising given that they're basically two speaker panels strapped to one's head. In comparison, so many other headphones sound claustrophobic and lack a certain vitalism the QA has in spades.

 

Where the new Floats really excel however is in their sense of inner complexity. Some headphones have a beautiful, wide-open presentation ... but nothing going on inside. They sound hollow. The QA is actually somewhat akin to certain IEMs in that is has a cerebral quality, especially with regard to center vocals. They sound as though they were inside your head. Or rather, the space your head formerly occupied.

 

Continuing on with the importance of spatial reproduction, one area that has fascinated me with regard to forms of listening---and area seldom if ever hit upon in impressions---is the relationship between perceived interiority and exteriority. With the Float QA, the boundary between the two seems to dissolve. What I mean by this is that the presentation doesn't sequester the sound field into various subsections, doesn't cordon it off. The "blob" effect some transducers yield, with a clearly defined left and right channel and center point.  With the Float QA, it's an organic whole. The traintracks go right through the mountain, too: rather than presenting vocals in front of the listener, they often cut right through. That's what I mean by the space a listener's head once occupied. You're not just standing in front of a presentation, but rather in the midst of it. The headphones aren't transparent so much as you're transparent, a ghost the musicians pass through.

 

I feel like my exploration of fullsized headphones has reached its saturation point for the time being. I feel satisfied in that area. Consequently, my attention is shifting more toward the portable realm again. I'm also more interested in other parts of the audio chain: specifically, turntables and pre-amps. I'd like to build a rig around the Float QA (and TakeT), so I'm on the lookout for a nice stereo amplifier.

 

Decware has entered once again into my field of awareness:

 

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

 

I think, visually at least, they'd pair quite nicely with the Float QA:

 

 

1000

 

I'm also fond of Audio Space's stuff:

 

 

1000

 

1000

 

Then there's this little beauty, an integrated amp by a Japanese company called Triode. Apparently they're popular in Japan, but this is the first time I've heard of them myself. Stumbled across this while searching for gear from another Japanese company called Orb. From what I've read, they're not particularly resolving, though they perform fairly well:

 

 

1000

 

 

1000

 

I'm not a resolution-hound, but I'm coming from the Leben CS300, so I don't want to get the same type of integrated amp again.

 
post #386 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

I haven't been in touch with them since the show because I've been busy. Fidelix has a very nice DSD DAC as well. It instinctively seemed like an obvious pairing and I'm very glad now I suggested it. 

Since DSD DACs still don't grow on trees nowadays, have you perhaps had chance to audition Felix DSD DAC ? I am eyeing Mytek 192/24/DSD DAC, most probably mastering version, but if something comparable at lower cost is now available, I am all ears.

 

I briefly auditioned it a year ago with unfamiliar DSD recordings and I liked what I heard. I'd have to compare it to what I have here, with my own music. I don't think DSD or DXD recordings are going to take off any time soon, however. Since I live in a heathen country that doesn't have Xmas (sorry, my bad humour) I'm thinking of spending my new-year period taking the time with select headphones and audio gear to evaluate them, should the manufacturers let me. The Fidelix gear is on my list for that.

post #387 of 663

I received two Binaural recordings .  One was Dr. Chesky "Sensational , Fantastic and Simply Amazing Binaural Sound Show"

700

 

Another one was Ottmar Liebert " Up Close"

700

Both are excellent recordings.   Using  the new Jecklin Float QA and AKG K1000  both headphones displayed the superb sound quality with stunning

soundstage, imaging.  The details of the Jecklin is better than the AKG K1000 and the bass quality is excellent with very good dynamic range

comparable to those of AKG K1000.

The sound of the AKG K1000 has more weight. I think I will change the jumper cables of Nordost Valhalla to NBS jumper cable because Nordost

Valhalla sounds thin in my system while the NBS is just right .   I think the imaging of the Jecklin may be  a little bit better  as I listened to

the track3  "Phrases"  of Dr. Chesky 's recording.  When I listened  to Ottmar Libert I can hear clearly the 4 musical instruments : lead Guitar,

bass Guitar, flamenco Guitar and percussions .  The sound of Ottmar's guitar is just infront a little bit to the right while the bass guitar is close

to the middle, the Flamenco guitar is at the far left corner while the percussions is in the middle more at the back and sometimes in the far right front.

I don't think I can detect anything wrong with the Binaural recordings with both headphones which are spectacular with this kind of recording.

 

I also listened to Adele "Skyfall"  the new Jecklin displayed the powerful singing of Adele and the soundstage is phenomenal with the height

of the soundstage went up so high.  The soundstage of Mika's  " Origin of Love"  was of 3D in quality.


Edited by kiertijai - 12/9/12 at 10:30pm
post #388 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

I briefly auditioned it a year ago with unfamiliar DSD recordings and I liked what I heard. I'd have to compare it to what I have here, with my own music. I don't think DSD or DXD recordings are going to take off any time soon, however. Since I live in a heathen country that doesn't have Xmas (sorry, my bad humour) I'm thinking of spending my new-year period taking the time with select headphones and audio gear to evaluate them, should the manufacturers let me. The Fidelix gear is on my list for that.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

I briefly auditioned it a year ago with unfamiliar DSD recordings and I liked what I heard. I'd have to compare it to what I have here, with my own music. I don't think DSD or DXD recordings are going to take off any time soon, however. Since I live in a heathen country that doesn't have Xmas (sorry, my bad humour) I'm thinking of spending my new-year period taking the time with select headphones and audio gear to evaluate them, should the manufacturers let me. The Fidelix gear is on my list for that.

Well, actually I have been preparing something special to comemorate my 300th post, but it turned out the thing I wanted to pull off would only work with earspeakers like Float and K1000 and not JVC HA-S770 ( or anything else requiring earpads ) I wanted to feature. Sigh............................

 

DXD proponent is 2L from Norway : http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html   You can actually compare the same recording in various formats/resolutions.

There are youtube videos too; the first thing search brought up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPScxJlaLbc

 

DSD guy ( to be exact in this case, GAL ) is Cookie Marenco from Blue Coast Records. http://bluecoastrecords.com/

You have to register and they have a few free DSD downloads about each month. It is a joint venture with Korg, manufacturer of DSD recorders and Audiogate software that aids with DSD playback in predominantely PCM world. So far, music was singer/songwriter, small jazz combos, etc - but this month they have a spectacular 

 

http://sanfranciscosymphony.downloadsnow.net/mahler-1?utm_source=Blue+Coast+Records+Members&utm_campaign=27d9e32017-SF_Symphony_Mahler&utm_medium=email

 
The only fly in the ointment is the $ 50.00 price attached to download, but this is in line what we used to pay for direct to disc recorded LPs at the end of 70s if one factors in inflation over the years.
 
Than there is Channel Classics : http://www.channelclassics.com/dsd.html    I was looking for a very nice video of Channel Classics on youtube, showing everything about recording, from loading the van with gear required, through ? hour drive from Holland to Budapest, Hungary, through rehearsals/soundchecks, actual recording, packing everything back up in a van and heading for home. The unglamorous part of the rehearsals and recording normal concert going public never gets to experience; the concert or recording that can be given after that much effort on the part of everyone involved, is but icing on the cake - somebody had to buy flour, ensure eggs are fresh, find a suitable replacement for the igridient of the recipe that suddenly became unavailable, etc & so forth - this process in itself is more interesting and educative than any finished article general public does get to see and hear . Appearently, it has been deleted - too revealing perhaps ? Here the results of the missing video :
 
 
DSD gear is still relatively scarce - no wonder, Sony did not want to allow others to use DSD ( SACD is the most common and known version ) before they generally stopped supporting it, and only recently did the poor unwanted child gain any vitally needed strength. It is also reaction to the piracy that nearly killed CD as commercial comodity - you can not throw it in a PC or MAC and get DSD copy anywhere near as easy as with CD. With DSD, there is hope musicians and recording engineers might again start looking at sound carriers as (partial) source of income again, leaving the sad days of CD being merely invitation to the concerts behind once and for all. To the internet generation, used to download everything for free, this may well be shocking news - but in the long run, it is the right thing to do. 
 
Or do you want record labels to sell you x-th version of, say, Dark Side of The Moon ( LP, remastered LP, CD 1st gen, CD 2nd gen, SACD, ???, ???? ) ? But in view of costs involved with new recordings of new music, it might well lead to this black scenario - unless the public realizes musicians have to eat too soon enough to prevent it actually happening.

Edited by analogsurviver - 12/9/12 at 10:28am
post #389 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiertijai View Post

I received two Binaural recordings .  One was Dr. Chesky "Sensational , Fantastic and Simply Amazing Binaural Sound Show"

700

 

Another one was Ottmar Liebert " Up Close"

700

Both are excellent recordings.   Using  the new Jecklin Float QA and AKG K1000  both headphones displayed the superb sound quality with stunning

soundstage, imaging.  The details of the Jecklin is better than the AKG K1000 and the bass quality is excellent with very good dynamic range

comparable to those of AKG K1000.

The sound of the AKG K1000 has more weight. I think I will change the jumper cables of Nordost Valhalla to NBS jumper cable because Nordost

Valhalla sounds thin in my system while the NBS is just right .   I think the imaging of the Jecklin may be  a little bit better  as I listened to

the track3  "Phrases"  of Dr. Chesky 's recording.  When I listened  to Ottmar Libert I can hear clearly the 4 musical instruments : lead Guitar,

bass Guitar, flamenco Guitar and percussions .  The sound of Ottmar's guitar is just infront a little bit to the right while the bass guitar is close

to the middle, the Flamenco guitar is at the far left corner while the percussions is in the middle more at the back.

I don't think I can detect anything wrong with the Binaural recordings with both headphones which are spectacular with this kind of recording.

 

I also listened to Adele "Skyfall"  the new Jecklin displayed the powerful singing of Adele and the soundstage is phenomenal with the height

of the soundstage went up so high.  The soundstage of Mika's  " Origin of Love"  was of 3D in quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOrBqQAuXg  is a primer on the use of binaural recording; these musicians either have quite an experience with binaural recordings or were coached real good; enjoy !

post #390 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

 

Really eloquent set of impressions. Thank you for the import/export bussines !

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