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New Jecklin Float QA !!! - Page 25

post #361 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Well if I were looking to spend that much on a turntable I would seriously consider one of Max Townshend's creations, The Rock 7 http://www.townshendaudio.com/turntables/the-rock-7  http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/townshend-audio-rock-7-turntable-tas-209/

The older models on the secondhand market like the Rock III and Rock Elite are great value but prices have been creeping up of late as people discover what great value and performance they offer.  The Rock reference is one of the greatest but not easy to come by in reasonable condition.

You can still use a Rega arm or you might like to consider the Morch http://www.moerch.dk/  The great thing about this arm is that you can buy different arm wands to match the compliance etc of the caretrudge you intend to use so you never have to compromise, especially if you change cartridges or use more than 1.

I use this set up my self a DP6 with a VanDen Hull cartridge but with an older version of the Rock.

 

You may not be aware but Stax produced several binural CD's some years ago.  They will pop up now and then on ebay.  Mostly classical and one or two other genres like Jazz, Brass Band.  I have sampled one or two of these but have to say I didnt find the recorded quality that great even though the binural effect was interesting

 

Yes, Max Townshend's various versions of Rock really rock. And the days superb vintage gear could be had cheaply is likely gone - forever.  To the point those in the know will not mention any particular piece of gear that is in very short supply ( or worse ) on any forum, as what is still likely to surface someday  ( within our lifetime ) is nowhere near capable of meeting the demand a single positive post regarding such gear would generate on the global scale.

 

There is new, improved Morch arm out there - but it is really exhorbitantly priced. I found DP6 a little too polite at all times for truly neutral performer, but it does allow for relaxed listen without listening fatigue - very enjoyable. Rega, particularly 1000, is more "direct" .

 

Stax never produced their own binaural recordings. These recordings are re-issues of dummy head recordings first issued on LP  by West German record label whose name eludes my memory ( have to check my Bielfelder catalogue(s) from the era ) - and to make matters regarding SQ worse, transfer from analog to digital was not particularly accomplished either. Not the premium choice in commercially available binaural recordings. I will try to track down at least one original LP version, as times digital transfers were done belong now to the CD Stone Age.

post #362 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiertijai View Post

@Analogsurviver  & @Complin

    Thanks for the info on the setup of Vinyl.  I will take all these into considerations and will consult with my friends and dealer

 

I have tried the AKG K1000 vs new Jecklin on Mike Oldfield "Tubular Bells" SACD today.

Both displayed spectacular soundstage, imaging and musical separation.   The details is better

with the Jecklin however the sound with AKG K1000 is fuller (I am not saying that the Jecklin sounds thin),

more organic or more metallic in this SACD which makes the sound of the musical instruments in this SACD more real.

I prefer AKG K1000 in this kind of music.  I also listened to some pop rocks of The Killers, Owl City  the bass of the AKG K1000

has more impact (Mine is classic bass heavy version, SN 4028 with black wooden box) .   

Most interesting, as Float and K 1000 concepts are both the very pinnacle of earspeaker state of the art. Not lot of people own both, so please keep posting your impressions !

post #363 of 663

Yes I have some of the last original Jecklin floats made and bass heavy AKG K1000.  Both are very suceptable to which amplifier you use with them otherwise they can become bright and fatiguing or lack dynamics 

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Most interesting, as Float and K 1000 concepts are both the very pinnacle of earspeaker state of the art. Not lot of people own both, so please keep posting your impressions !

post #364 of 663

One of the reasons why I chose the DP6 is for its neutrality and relaxed listening otherwise it becomes too hi-fi in your face if you know what I mean!

That's why I much prefer the Stax 007 Mk1 or the new SR-009.  However; the fluid damped paddle on the Rock makes a huge difference to the stability and weight of the sound, really rock solid bass and a reduction in surface noise.  There is to my knowledge nothing else like this produced by any other manufacturer.

 

Yes the DP8 is a superb but pricey arm, I suppose its because Morch now have become a bit of a cult in the States now.  Thankfully I have been using my DP6 for a about a decade now so they were not so popular or expensive then.

 

That probably explains why I was underwhelmed by the Stax binaural CD's wink_face.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Yes, Max Townshend's various versions of Rock really rock. And the days superb vintage gear could be had cheaply is likely gone - forever.  To the point those in the know will not mention any particular piece of gear that is in very short supply ( or worse ) on any forum, as what is still likely to surface someday  ( within our lifetime ) is nowhere near capable of meeting the demand a single positive post regarding such gear would generate on the global scale.

 

There is new, improved Morch arm out there - but it is really exhorbitantly priced. I found DP6 a little too polite at all times for truly neutral performer, but it does allow for relaxed listen without listening fatigue - very enjoyable. Rega, particularly 1000, is more "direct" .

 

Stax never produced their own binaural recordings. These recordings are re-issues of dummy head recordings first issued on LP  by West German record label whose name eludes my memory ( have to check my Bielfelder catalogue(s) from the era ) - and to make matters regarding SQ worse, transfer from analog to digital was not particularly accomplished either. Not the premium choice in commercially available binaural recordings. I will try to track down at least one original LP version, as times digital transfers were done belong now to the CD Stone Age.

post #365 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

One of the reasons why I chose the DP6 is for its neutrality and relaxed listening otherwise it becomes too hi-fi in your face if you know what I mean!

That's why I much prefer the Stax 007 Mk1 or the new SR-009.  However; the fluid damped paddle on the Rock makes a huge difference to the stability and weight of the sound, really rock solid bass and a reduction in surface noise.  There is to my knowledge nothing else like this produced by any other manufacturer.

 

Yes the DP8 is a superb but pricey arm, I suppose its because Morch now have become a bit of a cult in the States now.  Thankfully I have been using my DP6 for a about a decade now so they were not so popular or expensive then.

 

That probably explains why I was underwhelmed by the Stax binaural CD's wink_face.gif

You are right regarding Rock's paddle and the stability and solidity it brings. One arm that achieves nearly the same without the inconvinience of  Rock's paddle is various incarnations of the well Tempered Arm - usually the later the better. Both cut appreciably on noise levels of more conventional solutions, an asset that  is priceless when listening to vinyl on headphones

 

Perhaps you should ask the manufacturer of 

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/121027502756?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1738wt_932

 

if any of his many counterweights fits Morch - it should give you nearly the performance of DP8  at comparably modest cost for the upgrade. Perhaps he will be willing to make you a custom version to be used with Morch ?

 

The "Stax" recordings have many technical flaws, since I know most of the machines they were recorded on,

all the easier identifiable as such. Indelible stamp of (bygone) era, I reckon . 

post #366 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Yes I have some of the last original Jecklin floats made and bass heavy AKG K1000.  Both are very suceptable to which amplifier you use with them otherwise they can become bright and fatiguing or lack dynamics 

I know ...

post #367 of 663

I'll be sending these off tomorrow for QUAD to take a look at them.

 

I already really miss listening to them.

post #368 of 663
Quote:
I already really miss listening to them.

Taket H2 back on line?

post #369 of 663

Yes I have some of the last original Jecklin floats made and bass heavy AKG K1000.  Both are very suceptable to which amplifier you use with them otherwise they can become bright and fatiguing or lack dynamics 

I know ...

    I think my Zotl ZH230 is doing a great job here because it can drive both the AKG K1000 and the Jecklin without any

problem.   Even I put the ZH 230 through the Line Conditioner BPT-1  the dynamic range is very good and there is no

brightness nor hum, only minimally heard static.  It should be better if I plug in directly to the wall outlet as I was informed

that the Zotl ZH230 has its own sophisticated line conditioning.

    After AKG K1000 I plan to compare with the TakeT H2+.  I cannot compare AKG K1000 directly with the TakeT H2+

because the transformer of the Take T H2+  only allow one set of connection. However I can compare the Take T H2+ with

the new Jecklin using similar setup as the transformer of the new Jecklin has both speaker and amplifier posts.  I will use

the amplifier input to drive the new Jecklin and the speaker posst to connect with the transformer of the TakeT H2+.

When my preamplifier arrive I can compare with the HE90 + Aristaeus amplifier as it has two RCA analog out.

post #370 of 663

 I would strongly suggest getting some kind of VTA ( Vertical Tracking Angle ) device to go with RB arms, since Micro Line/Scanner/Ridge/Reach

stylus such as the one on 17D3 is VERY sensitive to VTA and "one size fits all" solution of stock RBs just will not do

  @Analogsurviver  : could you also provide the brand that I should use?  :  IsoKinetic??  please also provide the link

post #371 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiertijai View Post

 I would strongly suggest getting some kind of VTA ( Vertical Tracking Angle ) device to go with RB arms, since Micro Line/Scanner/Ridge/Reach

stylus such as the one on 17D3 is VERY sensitive to VTA and "one size fits all" solution of stock RBs just will not do

  @Analogsurviver  : could you also provide the brand that I should use?  :  IsoKinetic??  please also provide the link

 

Doesn't the VTA changes as the cartridge is going through the record? The cantilever is like a shock absorber, it bends, so the VTA can change as the cartridge is tracking the record groove. I used to just eye-ball the VTA, looking at the stylus as perpendicular to the record after setting everything else.I even eyeball the azimuth. I used to have an air bearing ETII arm.

 


Edited by wuwhere - 12/2/12 at 10:07pm
post #372 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiertijai View Post

 I would strongly suggest getting some kind of VTA ( Vertical Tracking Angle ) device to go with RB arms, since Micro Line/Scanner/Ridge/Reach

stylus such as the one on 17D3 is VERY sensitive to VTA and "one size fits all" solution of stock RBs just will not do

  @Analogsurviver  : could you also provide the brand that I should use?  :  IsoKinetic??  please also provide the link

Sorry - no direct experience with aftermarket VTA devices for Rega. Only stumbled on this problem a couple of time in the field. Please note, although nice, the ability for VTA adjustment on the fly while playing a record is only really useful if you have somebody to help you operating it while listening over speakers ( you do mind Jecklin Float or AKG K 1000 falling off your head, smashing arm/cartridge/stylus, I suppose, while operating VTA yourself... ) or if it has remote control for VTA - an unheard of luxury in Air Tangent top model I never saw in flesh. Since you are going to use it on Rega, it does make sense to have VTA adjustable on the fly; for suspended decks, like Linn, Thorens etc, it is a waste of money, because operating it during play would most likely result in groove skipping ( or worse ... ).

 

So, my guess would be as good as yours - try to get some impressions/reviews from the users, compare price/availability - good luck !

post #373 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

 

Doesn't the VTA changes as the cartridge is going through the record? The cantilever is like a shock absorber, it bends, so the VTA can change as the cartridge is tracking the record groove. I used to just eye-ball the VTA, looking at the stylus as perpendicular to the record after setting everything else.I even eyeball the azimuth. I used to have an air bearing ETII arm.

 

This post made my day !!! No offence, but eyeballing for VTA/SRA, and particularly azimuth, would require super superhuman abilities normal mortals are incapable of. ET2 user myself ( my go to arm whenever a new cartridge comes in for testing ), because this arm allows for practically each and every adjustment ( well, at least approximating to that desiderata close enough ) one might require, I can tell you azimuth is EXTREMELY sensitive to angle. Any cartridge that boasts channel separation > 35 dB and ACTUALLY delivers it for real and not only on accompaniying papers, is adjusted to WITHIN LESS THAN 1/3rd OF A DEGREE IN ANGLE ! The ultimate channel separation stereo record and the equipment to play it ARE capable of ?

Just below 60 dB, high 5X dB something, one mathematician from South America(s) published his paper on this topic in JAES in late fifties - and the tolerance it is required to get this kind of performance are fractions of a MINUTE, not of a degree of angle. I thought 60 or more dB channel separation Allearts is publishing for his better carts was a joke - until proven with the combination of Versa Dynamics 2.3 record player and Benz TR ( VERY selected and extremely carefully burnt-in under constant supervision/measurements/listening sample ). Test record I use is JVC TRS 1007.

 

You do not want to know how performance like this sounds - it would make you unhappy with whatever setup you are using for considerable time after

hearing it. But, ultimately, yes, it IS possible.

 

VTA/SRA are supposed to remain constant while playing a record. In real life, this is unfortunately wishful thinking. There are many measures one can take to limit this highly undesirable phenomenon to the minimum, the biggest ofender is the fundamental resonance due to compliance of the cartridge and effective mass of the arm/cartridge that occurs ( broadly speaking ) in the 5 to 15 Hz range with most combinations, with the ideal being 10 Hz or very close to it. By far the best paper on this topic is 

 

http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT_Design/MechanicalResonances.pdf

 

Many solutions to adress the problem were realized since then - and some are really good. Most are hard to come by - either discontinued or priced out of reach of majority - or both. But you have to understand what this paper is saying in full in order to be able to make an informed decision - a 100 ton turntable with arm made of nonexistium costing billion$ does not in any way guarantee it has this fundamental resonance issue fixed. MOST do not.

post #374 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I'll be sending these off tomorrow for QUAD to take a look at them.

 

I already really miss listening to them.

   Hope you will ask for a postage refund?

Notice this thread has gone well off topic duggehsmile.png

Hope they return before Xmas

post #375 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin40 View Post

   Hope you will ask for a postage refund?

Notice this thread has gone well off topic duggehsmile.png

Hope they return before Xmas

No - it did not. Jecklin Floats are one of few "cans" with enough resolution to actually allow one to hear the kind of things described in the "off topic" post of mine. Back in the day, they were the only game in town for this job, later being joined/helped but not superseded by Stax Sigma, AKG K 1000 and maybe Taket 2 ( which I have not even seen in flesh yet ). It is about the highest praise or compliment it is possible to give to a  "can".

 

And it is natural that for music reproduction of the highest calibre best components in each category required to form the entire hifi chain are chosen.

You are not going to get the best reproduction with Floats off CD, let alone MP3 !

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