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New Jecklin Float QA !!! - Page 12

post #166 of 663

I think you will find that most long term Stax users are just electrostatic headphone junkies!

 

We tend to try any and all electrostatics (and anything else interesting like ortho's) to see how they compare to what we believe is the pinnacle of headphone sound reproduction wink_face.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin40 View Post

Also why is a 'Stax' fan on a Float thread? 

post #167 of 663

I know a few Stax fans who are also Jecklin fans.

 

Or in my case, a TakeT fan (which isn't even a 'stat!).

post #168 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

I think you will find that most long term Stax users are just electrostatic headphone junkies!

 

We tend to try any and all electrostatics (and anything else interesting like ortho's) to see how they compare to what we believe is the pinnacle of headphone sound reproduction wink_face.gif

 

 

I agree. But you and 'MuppetFace' make constructive fair comments. Which i also agree with. 

post #169 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam73 View Post

 

I write here about my personal experience and decision but at the end, each People must do their own experience.
 

I have told only my opinion! Just as everyone can just share his view.



Moreover, I have spoken to some of the visitors of the Quad festival. All this people have been a long time with High-End Headphones, including the old Jecklin or various Stax .

 

I can tell you that I could not find anyone from these who wasn´t absolutly impressed from the new Jecklin.

 

But that is all rubbish because you have to decide!

 

After hearing the Jecklin you can say you like Stax or something else more or not. It does not matter to me because

 

 my vote for Jecklin will not change.   

 

So what headphones, amp and source you own?


Again talking to other peoples with High-End Headphones, what headphones, amps and sources they own?

 

 

   Without providing any specifics your opinion just ridicules and looks like this:

 

" I drove new Camaro today, this is the best sport car. I also spoke to the other people who own other sport cars for a long time and could not find anyone from these who wasn´t absolutely impressed  with new Camaro.
After driving  the Camaro you can say you like dodge challenger or something else more or not. It does not matter to me because  my vote for Camaro will not change."

 

How stuff like this helps?confused_face_2.gif

 

 

    

post #170 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Yes I do mean HE60, ........ I had HD600 in my brain as someone had just asked me a question about the latter confused.gif

 

Yes I totally agree with your concerns.  Statements like "the best headphone i've ever heard", worlds best, better than xyz but then i've never actually heard that model.   

 

I have had exactly the same remarks and conversation with forum member michaelxray or   Otwin as he is known elsewhere.  I have asked the same questions of the German forum where some of these rather florid descriptions originated.  However; when you actually ask for facts an answer is evaded or excuses given.

I wish people would just state the facts and say eg I think its a great headphone and have experience of X, Y and Z but cant comment on A as i've never heard it!

 

This is i'm afraid par for the course on many forums, people will recommend or critique equipment they have no first hand experience of.  Its how the legends of myths and fashions of the internet get created and get quoted as fact. 

 

 

 

Yes, Otwin. correctly

 

What facts?

A good system cleaner works without ear pads as a system with ear pads.

If it's good.

it is not difficult to understand.

If they then also hear exactly, then at least they will have no problem understanding that.

They must have a measurement to assess the quality of live of a cello?

Or satisfy their ears to decide that they have a superb quality?

Then they do a blanket in the same room between you and the cello.

They then need to measure in order to understand that the quality is not the same?

 

Ear pads are always affect the sound. It can not work otherwise.

Whether it a HD800, T1, LCD3, HE-6 ....

One thing remains: you come up with the originality of the sound to a certain point and end. Until then, and no further.

Then you can improve a HD800. It will be a HD1000. He is a little better, more self-evident - a bit more of everything.

The same character. Only slightly better.

 


To achieve more, they need to change the system. Not improve. Change.

This is what distinguishes the float.

Therefore your question has already been answered by facts. It can get another 20 Stax. As long as they have ear pads, they will not have the same sound quality of the float.

 

They say: Flowery description

Why? Just because I'm not a robot?

they are in front of a live instrument, what happens to them?

Measurements? They see an oscilloscope?

Or reach her ​​heart sounds and music?

The emotion is gone then?

It then goes to musical language or graphs, diagrams, amplitudes?

 

 

I know the translation is terrible. But unfortunately, I can not offer more.

I hope they can forgive.


Edited by michaelxray - 10/18/12 at 4:18pm
post #171 of 663
I can do the exact same fallacious argumentation in the other direction though: doesn't matter the shape of the float, can bring 20 floats, there will still be this bass inefficiency due to front/back wave cancellation. Then for the pads argument, it is silly silly talk: don't tell me that this huge box sitting in front of the ear is any more transparent than something like HD800. It's BS, pure and simple, both will lead to sound reflections from the frame ( not so much from the velour pad). And, as far as reflections from rigid surfaces / sound diffraction from sharp edge, I bet the float is not the miracle you're claiming it to be...

As for stax users listening with an oscillope, well whatever floats your boat really wink.gif
post #172 of 663

The guy has only posted 11 times at this point in time and a quick perusal shows that he has owned the Stax SR-507, 007, SRM-600, LCD 2 revisions 1 and 2 and LCD 3.  No further information on sources or what he drives the LCD headphones with but it does give some indication of where he is coming from.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvs_75 View Post

 

So what headphones, amp and source you own?


Again talking to other peoples with High-End Headphones, what headphones, amps and sources they own?

 

 

   Without providing any specifics your opinion just ridicules and looks like this:

 

" I drove new Camaro today, this is the best sport car. I also spoke to the other people who own other sport cars for a long time and could not find anyone from these who wasn´t absolutely impressed  with new Camaro.
After driving  the Camaro you can say you like dodge challenger or something else more or not. It does not matter to me because  my vote for Camaro will not change."

 

How stuff like this helps?confused_face_2.gif

 

 

    

post #173 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:

So what headphones, amp and source you own.

 

 

 

 

if you read my posts exactly you would have known this.

 

Ok at last my number one Setup was a  SR-007MK2  / SRM-007tII  Kombi (sold it after hearing the Jecklin QA) , before that i had the 507/600 Kombi.

Audeze LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2, and LCD-3 with Jenalabs Cable driven by Cavalli LF. 

I had the HD-800 two times first time driven from Violectric V-200 second Time driven from Triode TRV-HD84.

I owned all the Hifimen Headphones and the HE 5 , AKG 701 are always Inventory

 

So i have heard and own many others because im a real headphone guy. If i had the decission between a Headphone or a very good Speaker i would clearly choose the headphone!!! 

I dont have to fight with inheadlocalisation because i dont have IHL.

 

 

But all this is not important for you because these things wont help you to find out how good the Jecklin is.


Edited by Sam73 - 10/19/12 at 3:52am
post #174 of 663

    Didn't mean to be harsh and I checked your profile you have zero inventory there. I went back only couple of pages so I missed your previous posts obviously.

    My point is that you have not own or heard sr009 or sr007 out of proper amps like KGSS, LL or BHSE and everybody know that SRM-007tII do not drive sr007 to the full potential.
But you jumped on the first wagon of the hype train regardless and declare new Float the end of all headphones.
Until you put the gear mention above side by side  driven with  the same source you never know the difference or which  is actually better.

post #175 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

I can do the exact same fallacious argumentation in the other direction though: doesn't matter the shape of the float, can bring 20 floats, there will still be this bass inefficiency due to front/back wave cancellation. Then for the pads argument, it is silly silly talk: don't tell me that this huge box sitting in front of the ear is any more transparent than something like HD800. It's BS, pure and simple, both will lead to sound reflections from the frame ( not so much from the velour pad). And, as far as reflections from rigid surfaces / sound diffraction from sharp edge, I bet the float is not the miracle you're claiming it to be...
As for stax users listening with an oscillope, well whatever floats your boat really wink.gif

You need to understand the principle. Otherwise, they will never understand.

But that's where the difficulty is.

If given the chance, they listen to the float and they will understand what I mean. All debates are done.

It's simple. We can now continue to talk and talk and talk ...

I can make them with my words not understood what is at stake.

They would always pull the wrong conclusions.

When they hear the float, they will understand the difference. The electrostatic difference with ear pads and without ear pads.

You will understand exactly what is tonally different and they will understand:

No matter what amp to Stax works, no matter what Stax - they will then understand the principle problem.

Now they do not understand. Now they take the quality up the mountain. Normally. Everyone does it that way. Always slightly higher, always something better. Here is a little clarity, because a little bit resolution, a little paint here, a little there transparency. etc

Oh, but this amp makes more at Stax. A little more body, a little more substance, a little more range, etc.

This is the way that we know. normally. Thus written, do the postings.

The float shows them the real sound. I know quite perfect is not a thing in this world. However, the float is closer. When they hear it, they will understand.

post #176 of 663
Michaelxray, I am looking forward to listening to it some day. Maybe you can convince the manufacturer to send a demo for a future headphone festival in Tokyo wink.gif
post #177 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

I do think you are being very over critical here Birgir

 

Whilst I agree the original floats don't have the finesse or bass response of the high end Stax, and cant as they don't seal with the ear, with a good power amp and decent recording they can be quite magical.  The Floats have a very different presentation to almost any other headphone I can name, but I can name a huge number that under-perform them!  I use mine of a powerful tube EAR Yoshino speaker amp. 

 

 

This one came before I has posted mine but more powerful amps will not help that at all as you are still using transformers.  Direct drive is the only way to properly use these and I don't mean that Precide amp, if SRPP was a bad idea for Stax then it's orders of magnitude worse for the Jecklin's.  Well that and running ECC81's at 450V off a common filament supply.  It takes real skill to design something this bad. 

 

My point is a Lambda is a far better transducer all things considered let alone an Omega or a HE60. 

post #178 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

Michaelxray, I am looking forward to listening to it some day. Maybe you can convince the manufacturer to send a demo for a future headphone festival in Tokyo wink.gif

No, unfortunately I can not.

I am a private user. Just as most people. The float QA is so important for me, because I'm waiting for something 35 years - 35 years as a fan of headphones.

I'm a fan of Stax. And I also learned to appreciate an Orpheus. Then maybe this really the best headphones on the market.

However, the float QA is better. More original sound quality. More authenticity in sound.

And finally, after 35 years, it was worth waiting.

Believe me: An example: You have never heard such a choral quality.

Not the same air between the cast. Not that perfection in the balance. Not that perfection of proportion. Not the quality of the construction of the individual voices

This was one of many examples. I get this impression is not an Orpheus, not with a Stax (regardless Lamda Omega, 007) - not with HiFiMAN and Audeze - no headphones, this quality.

Not the perfect balance between precision, body and richness.

post #179 of 663
Quote:

 

My point is a Lambda is a far better transducer all things considered let alone an Omega or a HE60. 

  That is your opinion. But many will find other headphones better to their ears.

post #180 of 663

I would agree the Float is no match for the Omega, and come to think of it I've not heard any other headphone so far that can best it.  Cant comment on the 009 as have not yet heard

 

Regarding transformers. Yes they are a limiting factor just like when used with Stax.  However; I have found the type and voltage swing of the amplifier can make quite a difference to the overall sound both with Stax and Float on a transformer.  You get the character and flavor of the speaker amplifier reflected in the headphone, so as with a dedicated headphone amp the better it is the more impact there is on the quality of the sound. 

 

I feel the HE60 is a different animal to both the Lambda or Float, as the latter is trying to do something quite different from either.  Whilst I agree overall the Lambda transducer is excellent, Stax have produced on or two versions over the years that were less than ideal, and I would personally favor the Float over those versions any day

Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

 

This one came before I has posted mine but more powerful amps will not help that at all as you are still using transformers.  Direct drive is the only way to properly use these and I don't mean that Precide amp, if SRPP was a bad idea for Stax then it's orders of magnitude worse for the Jecklin's.  Well that and running ECC81's at 450V off a common filament supply.  It takes real skill to design something this bad. 

 

My point is a Lambda is a far better transducer all things considered let alone an Omega or a HE60. 

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