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The FitEar CIEM Impressions Thread - Page 29

post #421 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solotov View Post

How many places can we order FitEar Custom IEM?

The cheapest price would be in Japan of course.

I live in Thailand but the Jaben price here is above $2500 which I think it's too much from the original price.

 

The problem is, you need to get your ear impressions made by an audiologist approved by FitEar. AFAIK they usually don't accept just any pair of impressions. Jaben is one of the few places approved to do them outside of Japan. I think there may be a few other smaller suppliers, but they tend to go through Jaben. So you end up going to a guy who sends it to Jaben who then sends it to FitEar. Since everyone wants a cut, the price just goes up more and more.

post #422 of 4928

I finally used my 000 cables again after spending several weeks with the BTG Audio Sunrise cables.

 

Verdict:

SQ and SS: I still prefer the 000s.

 

Warmth, Laid-backness: Go for the Sunrise cables.

 

Also I'd like to note that the Sunrise cables are built for the TG!334s, because the connector housing is larger than the usual FitEar housing (Compared to the 001, 000, and ALO cables) and therefore kind of hits the side of the CIEM. Thus my left IEM had moments that it would just disconnect from the BTG cables.

post #423 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

The problem is, you need to get your ear impressions made by an audiologist approved by FitEar. AFAIK they usually don't accept just any pair of impressions. 

 

This is not true.  I actually emailed Fitear before (in Japanese as well, so no misunderstanding) inquiring about the ear impressions and expressing my uncertainty towards Jaben's staff doing the impression - because really who knows whether a random staff working at a headphone store is qualified or not (especially when the staff claimed he was taught but Suyama-san himself, when people make these claims it just raises alarm bells for me) - and Fitear actually replied that I can just go to any audiologist I trust to do it. 

 

Also in the larger picture it makes sense if Fitear ever want to expand their business overseas - they can't always go around flying staff from country to country to shops just to train/confirm whether the impressions are good or not unless they can be sure the shops can bring in enough customers to warrant the expenses. 

post #424 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanaholic View Post

 

This is not true.  I actually emailed Fitear before (in Japanese as well, so no misunderstanding) inquiring about the ear impressions and expressing my uncertainty towards Jaben's staff doing the impression - because really who knows whether a random staff working at a headphone store is qualified or not (especially when the staff claimed he was taught but Suyama-san himself, when people make these claims it just raises alarm bells for me) - and Fitear actually replied that I can just go to any audiologist I trust to do it. 

 

Also in the larger picture it makes sense if Fitear ever want to expand their business overseas - they can't always go around flying staff from country to country to shops just to train/confirm whether the impressions are good or not unless they can be sure the shops can bring in enough customers to warrant the expenses. 

 

Some clarification is needed on FitEar products outside of Japan.

 

FitEar does not have a global pricing policy, whoever decides to buy outside of Japan needs to pay a premium, or treat the purchase as a service. Foreign exchange fluctuations have no influence on prices as international trade is of course settled in US Dollars and prices fixed at negotiations between FitEar and third party reseller.

 

Referring to the ear impressions, it is rather naughty that you receive the reply you did, as even in Japan, purchases of FitEar customs require the impressions done in their specified way and by their authorized audiologists. Not sure of the other Jaben stores nor the other two stores that sell FitEar in Hong Kong but Derek in the Hong Kong Jaben store was personally taught on how to make the ear impressions by Suyama San when he made his roadshow trip last year. The ear impressions on Derek's personal pair of 334 were done by Suyama San himself.

 

Hong Kong is very important center for FitEar due to the sheer volume of business that this centers brings and Suyama San has recognized this by the numerous visits he makes.

post #425 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanaholic View Post

 

This is not true.  I actually emailed Fitear before (in Japanese as well, so no misunderstanding) inquiring about the ear impressions and expressing my uncertainty towards Jaben's staff doing the impression - because really who knows whether a random staff working at a headphone store is qualified or not (especially when the staff claimed he was taught but Suyama-san himself, when people make these claims it just raises alarm bells for me) - and Fitear actually replied that I can just go to any audiologist I trust to do it. 

 

Also in the larger picture it makes sense if Fitear ever want to expand their business overseas - they can't always go around flying staff from country to country to shops just to train/confirm whether the impressions are good or not unless they can be sure the shops can bring in enough customers to warrant the expenses. 


Actually that's one of the main reasons why FitEar doesn't take overseas orders. They feel they can't insure the consistency of ear impressions and most likely don't want to deal with the ramifications of overseas customers not getting the right fit. FitEar is a stickler for quality control and has a proprietary set of instructions for obtaining ear impressions that differs from other manufacturers in subtle ways.

 

It's quite possible that they decide to make exceptions from time to time assuming the audiologists follow their instructions very precisely, but it has been my experience that they generally prefer a list of certain "approved" audiologists more times than not. This has also been the experience of other head-fiers I know. In fact I tried for quite a while to get customs from FitEar by submitting my own outside impressions. I had several head-fiers in Japan who know Suyama-san personally ask if that would work, and every time the answer was no. It wasn't until I was able to get "approved" ear impressions submitted through Jaben that I was able to purchase my MH335DW.

 

The owner of Jaben was indeed instructed by Suyama-san on how to do the impressions. The employees who work at Jaben are likely trained: obviously not by Suyama-san, but according to their specifications. You can only buy FitEar customs at certain locations in Asia outside of Japan, and so FitEar wouldn't have chosen Jaben as a vendor if they weren't trustworthy. The other smaller businesses that sell FitEar customs actually go through Jaben often time, so you end up placing an order with these smaller businesses who then turn around a place an order with Jaben who then place it with FitEar.

 

Edit: Ha! Gavin beat me to it.

post #426 of 4928

Hmmm... this discussion raises a number of interesting questions...

 

It's all very well saying fitear customers may only have their impressions done by certain people (and I do appreciate Suyama San's rationale for this), but, in the case of headphone retailers, such as Jaben, it seems the consensus is that if they are trained by Suyama San then all is well. But is Suyama San training these Jaben staff members up so thoroughly as to be fully-qualified audiologists? I could learn how to perform a medical procedure in one day but it doesn't mean I'd be fully qualified to do it, or willing to submit a relative to a procedure performed by someone not fully-qualified to perform it.

 

I don't mean this argumentatively; it's simply a legitimate question.
 

 

There are evidently a number of factors at play here, including (though not limited to) the following :-

 

1) Suyama San / fitear understandably wishing to minimise potential inaccuracies in impressions, with all the ramifications that scenario entails for all concerned

 

2) Retailers/distributors having exclusivity deals (and, no doubt, rather lucrative ones) in place with fitear, and not wishing to see these undermined by fitear customers going to independent audiologists.

 

3) Potential customers outside Asia either being entirely denied the opportunity to legitimately purchase a fitear product, or being forced to pay a very substantial premium to line the pockets of a distributor, rather than going to a fully-qualified and entirely legitimate independent audiologist, as customers of any other CIEM vendor in the world would routinely do.

 

 

I'm not in the market, right this red-hot-minute, for a fitear product, but I am seriously considering a 335DW in the near future (which is why I keep an eye on the fitear discussions, here on Head-fi), and as someone who lives outside of Asia, these 'road-blocks' and partially-conflicting interests, from various parties, are a concern. Humans live in a global community these days. Borders are becoming increasingly arbitrary and irrelevant, from a business/commerce standpoint, and the current status quo for (potential) international customers of fitear products cannot continue in this stifled manner for ever. Something's going to have to give. It'll be interesting to see how it things pan out in the coming year or so.


Edited by Mython - 3/22/13 at 9:51am
post #427 of 4928
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Hmmm... this discussion raises a number of interesting questions...

 

It's all very well saying fitear customers may only have their impressions done by certain people (and I do appreciate Suyama San's rationale for this), but, in the case of headphone retailers, such as Jaben, it seems the consensus is that if they are trained by Suyama San then all is well. But is Suyama San training these Jaben staff members up so thoroughly as to be fully-qualified audiologists? I could learn how to perform a medical procedure in one day but it doesn't mean I'd be fully qualified to do it, or willing to submit a relative to a procedure performed by someone not fully-qualified to perform it.

 

I don't mean this argumentatively; it's simply a legitimate question.
 

 

There are evidently a number of factors at play here, including (though not limited to) the following :-

 

1) Suyama San / fitear understandably wishing to minimise potential inaccuracies in impressions, with all the ramifications that scenario entails for all concerned

 

2) Retailers/distributors having exclusivity deals (and, no doubt, rather lucrative ones) in place with fitear, and not wishing to see these undermined by fitear customers going to independent audiologists.

 

3) Potential customers outside Asia either being entirely denied the opportunity to legitimately purchase a fitear product, or being forced to pay a very substantial premium to line the pockets of a distributor, rather than going to a fully-qualified and entirely legitimate independent audiologist, as customers of any other CIEM vendor in the world would routinely do.

 

 

I'm not in the market, right this red-hot-minute, for a fitear product, but I am seriously considering a 335DW in the near future (which is why I keep an eye on the fitear discussions, here on Head-fi), and as someone who lives outside of Asia, these 'road-blocks' and partially-conflicting interests, from various parties, are a concern. Humans live in a global community these days. Borders are becoming increasingly arbitrary and irrelevant, from a business/commerce standpoint, and the current status quo for (potential) international customers of fitear products cannot continue in this stifled manner for ever. Something's going to have to give. It'll be interesting to see how it things pan out in the coming year or so.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that if FitEar trains Jaben staff on getting impressions imply that the staff become qualified audiologists. Since FitEar doesn't receive impressions by simply any audiologist, I see a distinction between an audiologist and a FitEar-approved ear impression specialist.

 

One other assumption made which to be honest, I'm actually not certain if it's even true, is that FitEar is trying to expand to capture the global market. I could be wrong but I'm getting the impression more that FitEar merely testing the global market. They already have a strong reputation for making IEMs for celebrities (look at their website, but in Japanese), and large local Japanese customer base. I've been to their office & FitEar are the only occupants of a (8 or 9 storey) building in Ginza and when asked if the whole building is theirs, they humbly reply that it's small and narrow. I'm mostly sure that FitEar has been there for some time even before their international popularity.

 

What would be interesting to know if the distributors approached FitEar to distribute their products, or if FitEar was actively seeking distributors globally. I'm actually more of the impression of the former.

post #428 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Hmmm... this discussion raises a number of interesting questions...

 

It's all very well saying fitear customers may only have their impressions done by certain people (and I do appreciate Suyama San's rationale for this), but, in the case of headphone retailers, such as Jaben, it seems the consensus is that if they are trained by Suyama San then all is well. But is Suyama San training these Jaben staff members up so thoroughly as to be fully-qualified audiologists? I could learn how to perform a medical procedure in one day but it doesn't mean I'd be fully qualified to do it, or willing to submit a relative to a procedure performed by someone not fully-qualified to perform it.

 

I don't mean this argumentatively; it's simply a legitimate question.
 

 

There are evidently a number of factors at play here, including (though not limited to) the following :-

 

1) Suyama San / fitear understandably wishing to minimise potential inaccuracies in impressions, with all the ramifications that scenario entails for all concerned

 

2) Retailers/distributors having exclusivity deals (and, no doubt, rather lucrative ones) in place with fitear, and not wishing to see these undermined by fitear customers going to independent audiologists.

 

3) Potential customers outside Asia either being entirely denied the opportunity to legitimately purchase a fitear product, or being forced to pay a very substantial premium to line the pockets of a distributor, rather than going to a fully-qualified and entirely legitimate independent audiologist, as customers of any other CIEM vendor in the world would routinely do.

 

 

I'm not in the market, right this red-hot-minute, for a fitear product, but I am seriously considering a 335DW in the near future (which is why I keep an eye on the fitear discussions, here on Head-fi), and as someone who lives outside of Asia, these 'road-blocks' and partially-conflicting interests, from various parties, are a concern. Humans live in a global community these days. Borders are becoming increasingly arbitrary and irrelevant, from a business/commerce standpoint, and the current status quo for (potential) international customers of fitear products cannot continue in this stifled manner for ever. Something's going to have to give. It'll be interesting to see how it things pan out in the coming year or so.

It is frustrating for us, who do not live in Japan to buy FT! customs. But you know what? FT! is a privately owned business and can do business any way it wishes without interference, as long as it is not breaking the law.

 

 "Something's going to have to give" not necessarily as long as the current owner wants it not to.

 

If FT! is as busy as everyone seems to believe, then, the owner must feel he has the winning business model and indeed by all appearances it is.

 

Why would he change anything?


Edited by Saraguie - 3/22/13 at 10:52am
post #429 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

I don't think anyone is saying that if FitEar trains Jaben staff on getting impressions imply that the staff become qualified audiologists.

 

Exactly.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 Since FitEar doesn't receive impressions by simply any audiologist, I see a distinction between an audiologist and a FitEar-approved ear impression specialist.

 

Again, I agree.

 

But you missed my intended point - the point being that, personally, I would rather choose someone to do my ear impressions based upon thorough clinical training (i.e. an audiologist) rather than someone who may well be 'approved', but yet lacking in thoroguh clinical training. Of course, if one lives in Japan then they may be in the happy situation of being able to have their ear impressions taken by someone who is qualified in both aspects. My point, therefore, was more in relation to international customers wishing to obtain fitear product.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

One other assumption made which to be honest, I'm actually not certain if it's even true, is that FitEar is trying to expand to capture the global market.

 

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that fitear are actively seeking global expansion. I simply meant that there is, at least from an audiophile enthusiast perspective, a global market hungry for their products. 'Nature abhors a vaccum!' wink.gif  To be honest, my limited understanding of fitear is that, much like Minerva, in the UK, and Westone in the USA, by far the lions share of their revenue comes from their hearing-aid arm of the business, with custom musician/audiophile - oriented products being a profit-worthy but (relatively-speaking) less significant endeavour.   Even so, if customers from around the globe are knocking on their door, it would at least be rational for them to consider if there are viable ways to embrace the opportunity, rather than simply shunning any and everyone from outside Asia. It's their prerogative to choose to shun people, and I respect their right to do so, but, as I said, business on this planet increasingly does not work that way. 50 years ago, geography dictated business practice, but that's fast becoming an outmoded strategy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

What would be interesting to know if the distributors approached FitEar to distribute their products, or if FitEar was actively seeking distributors globally. I'm actually more of the impression of the former.

 

 

Yes, I suspect you're very probably right.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

It is frustrating for us, who do not live in Japan to buy FT! customs. But you know what? FT! is a privately owned business and can do business any way it wishes without interference, as long as it is not breaking the law.

 

"Something's going to have to give" not necessarily as long as the current owner wants it not to.

 

If FT! is as busy as everyone seems to believe, then, the owner must feel he has the winning business model and indeed by all appearances it is.

 

Why would he change anything?

 

 

Hey, take it easy! I wasn't berating fitear, I was simply observing that in an increasingly global marketplace, the old ways of running a business according to geographical boundaries are becoming less and less tenable. Please don't 'shoot' me for stating an inescapable fact of modern life. The world is not short of companies who were determined to continue with long-standing business strategies that had brought them success for many years, even decades, but who floundered as the business world changed around them and made their previously-successful strategies obsolete.

 

 

Absolutely none of my remarks in this thread have been intended as in any way disrespectful towards fitear. I am merely observing that their current approach to business is likely to be pushed to evolve, simply as an inevitable result of the global business climate continually evolving around them.  ...and, yes, that might be embraced with some reluctance on fitear / Suyama San's part, but will, perhaps, be embraced with greater enthusiasm by the many eager customers for their CIEM products, around the globe. If approached wisely, both parties stand to gain from it.

post #430 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 

Exactly.

 

 

Again, I agree.

 

But you missed my intended point - the point being that, personally, I would rather choose someone to do my ear impressions based upon thorough clinical training (i.e. an audiologist) rather than someone who may well be 'approved', but yet lacking in thoroguh clinical training. Of course, if one lives in Japan then they may be in the happy situation of being able to have their ear impressions taken by someone who is qualified in both aspects. My point, therefore, was more in relation to international customers wishing to obtain fitear product.

 

 

 

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that fitear are actively seeking global expansion. I simply meant that there is, at least from an audiophile enthusiast perspective, a global market hungry for their products. 'Nature abhors a vaccum!' wink.gif  To be honest, my limited understanding of fitear is that, much like Minerva, in the UK, and Westone in the USA, by far the lions share of their revenue comes from their hearing-aid arm of the business, with custom musician/audiophile - oriented products being a profit-worthy but (relatively-speaking) less significant endeavour.   Even so, if customers from around the globe are knocking on their door, it would at least be rational for them to consider if there are viable ways to embrace the opportunity, rather than simply shunning any and everyone from outside Asia. It's their prerogative to choose to shun people, and I respect their right to do so, but, as I said, business on this planet increasingly does not work that way. 50 years ago, geography dictated business practice, but that's fast becoming an outmoded strategy.

 

 

 

Yes, I suspect you're very probably right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, take it easy! I wasn't berating fitear, I was simply observing that in an increasingly global marketplace, the old ways of running a business according to geographical boundaries are becoming less and less tenable. Please don't 'shoot' me for stating an inescapable fact of modern life. The world is not short of companies who were determined to continue with long-standing business strategies that had brought them success for many years, even decades, but who floundered as the business world changed around them and made their previously-successful strategies obsolete.

 

 

Absolutely none of my remarks in this thread have been intended as in any way disrespectful towards fitear. I am merely observing that their current approach to business is likely to be pushed to evolve, simply as an inevitable result of the global business climate continually evolving around them.  ...and, yes, that might be embraced with some reluctance on fitear / Suyama San's part, but will, perhaps, be embraced with greater enthusiasm by the many eager customers for their CIEM products, around the globe. If approached wisely, both parties stand to gain from it.

I apologize for being too strong, its just MY frustration coming thru. I recently priced Jaben's pricing for the 335 and wow! E X P E N S I V E right now it is a pass for me when I go to H.K. in Oct. But, knowing me, that could change and I'd pay up.

 

Not to belabor the point, remember FT! seems to be in a lot of aspects a traditional Japanese company. Change IMO is not something they would embrace.

post #431 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

I apologize for being too strong, its just MY frustration coming thru. I recently priced Jaben's pricing for the 335 and wow! E X P E N S I V E right now it is a pass for me when I go to H.K. in Oct. But, knowing me, that could change and I'd pay up.

 

Not to belabor the point, remember FT! seems to be in a lot of aspects a traditional Japanese company. Change IMO is not something they would embrace.

 

 

I've never been to Asia, so I've never been to a Jaben branch, but I must admit, I've seen head-fiers say, many, many times, that they have painfully high mark-ups on some international products.

 

 

Back to fitear, I find it kind of bemusing that, one the one hand, there are 'traditional Japanese companies' who are considered to be rather insular and unwilling to step out into the global marketplace, and yet, on the other hand, there are Japanese companies like Sony, Kawasaki, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha, Daikin, etc. who have vast and astonishingly diverse and numerous business interests spanning the entire globe. Such a dichotomy! popcorn.gif

post #432 of 4928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Back to fitear, I find it kind of bemusing that, one the one hand, there are 'traditional Japanese companies' who are considered to be rather insular and unwilling to step out into the global marketplace, and yet, on the other hand, there are Japanese companies like Sony, Kawasaki, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha, Daikin, etc. who have vast and astonishingly diverse and numerous business interests spanning the entire globe. Such a dichotomy! popcorn.gif

Indeed!

post #433 of 4928

Anyway, for those of you lucky enough to be able to acquire fitear CIEMs, I look forward to hearing more impressions / reviews on the MH335DW, please!

post #434 of 4928

FitEar-speaker placement.jpg

 

I spent a couple hours at FitEar's Chiba factory a few weeks ago and got to see more than one 335DW either queued to be built, or polished. I've written a little about the experience. BTW, I'm back from Hong Kong and will try to answer questions and pass them to Mr. Suyama if I cannot. 


Edited by shigzeo - 3/26/13 at 7:18am
post #435 of 4928
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post

FitEar-speaker placement.jpg


I spent a couple hours at FitEar's Chiba factory a few weeks ago and got to see more than one 335DW either queued to be built, or polished. I've written a little about the experience. BTW, I'm back from Hong Kong and will try to answer questions and pass them to Mr. Suyama if I cannot. 
Great job mate!! Didn't know you did a coverage of FitEar ;-).
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