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The FitEar CIEM Impressions Thread - Page 88

post #1306 of 3436
Anak do you feel the 901 also helps in making the 335 sound more balanced or extended or whatever?
post #1307 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

A few weeks back, MTTheFirst & myself dabbled around with cables from a few different makers (now that we're starting to see 3rd party cable makers for FitEar). Some of the pure silver OCC cables we tried did have the ability to extend the trebles more, however, to my opinion, not necessarily in a refined way. Maybe it was a lack of burn-in time or just a mismatch of cables-to-IEMs but the highs though extended, sounded somewhat "coarse".

The cables I have (on loan) now are the Tralucent Silver and Silver/Gold and to me the Silver/Gold does control the highs a little better (although not as extended as some of the aforementioned silver OCC, but more so than the FitEar 000 or 001 cables) and a nicer texture to the bass. The price of the Tralucent Silver/Gold though is quite pricey (I'm guessing between the $600-$800 range).

The other brand that caught our eye is the Toxic Cables Virus which although wasn't (to my ears) at the Tralucent Silver/Gold level but quite close for about 1/2 the price. Just like anything else in audio components, law of diminishing returns apply to cables too. MTheFirst now has Toxic Cable's TotL Silver Widow of which I hope to get my hands on in the next few days to compare it against the Tralucent Silver/Gold.

Bear in mind that all this is opening up a can of worms of whether spending so much is "worth it" or not - that's up to each individual. Personally for me, in trying out various cables for the MH335DW, I personally feel there's still potential in this IEM. The only question is how far am I prepared to go (or maybe "spend" would be a better word?) to see what I can squeeze out of the MH335DW.
Sean, thanks for the detailed reply, much appreciated. I might try to grab a few to see if cables can change the presentation of 335 more to my liking but personally, definitely won't spend 600 on headphone cables...although my poworcords and interconnects are in 1k to 2k range as they are way more versatile
post #1308 of 3436

My demo with 335DW was on stock cable

For me, the bass was really overwhelming and uncontrolled

 

435 was pure amazement

It might come across to some as being being dry

But for me, it was a tad sweeter than my own Miracle

post #1309 of 3436
So for those FitEar officianados/owners, if I prefer a warmer sound which would you recommend? I've demo'd the 335s and to my ears amazing, but did listen with an expensive silver/gold cable Sean mentioned in his previous post.
post #1310 of 3436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Anak do you feel the 901 also helps in making the 335 sound more balanced or extended or whatever?

 

I do like the 335/901 combo more so than the Ak120+335 combo. And to me this is rather strange 'cos I would have thought the AK120's 3 ohm OI would help roll off the 335's bass a little bit. Funnily though that slight roll off somehow makes the 335 sound a little unnatural - not by much but when able to compare side-by-side the HM-901, it's noticeable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-Siow View Post
 

My demo with 335DW was on stock cable

For me, the bass was really overwhelming and uncontrolled

 

435 was pure amazement

It might come across to some as being being dry

But for me, it was a tad sweeter than my own Miracle

 

Joe, I'll see if I can have a listen to the 435 demo next time I visit Fujiya/e-earphone.

post #1311 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickif View Post


Sean, thanks for the detailed reply, much appreciated. I might try to grab a few to see if cables can change the presentation of 335 more to my liking but personally, definitely won't spend 600 on headphone cables...although my poworcords and interconnects are in 1k to 2k range as they are way more versatile

 

The Moon Audio silver dragon that I have can extend the trebles further than those 001 or 000 cables do but sound a bit less control like AnakChan mentions. With the proper burn, it become better but still not quite there yet. The Toxic cable virus give a nice extend to the trebles with a lot more refine sound and more control of overall details. 

 

Right now I have (also on loan) the Toxic cables "Silver poison" and "Silver widow". Both of them are OCC silver/gold like tralucent. Both cables give a nice boost to the trebles but slightly different characteristic on the soundstage. With the price just below $400 for widow and below $300 for poison, I would consider that both of them are one of the best value in term of quality/price.

 

Owning four different brands of cable for my MH335DW, remind me that it still have a lot of potential to improve the sound of it.

post #1312 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoog5600 View Post

So for those FitEar officianados/owners, if I prefer a warmer sound which would you recommend? I've demo'd the 335s and to my ears amazing, but did listen with an expensive silver/gold cable Sean mentioned in his previous post.

 

My toxic cables virus is nice and warm on MH335DW. You could try my virus on the demo unit at fujiya or at the headphone festival if Fitear have it for the demo session.


Edited by mtthefirst - 10/6/13 at 11:20pm
post #1313 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtthefirst View Post

My toxic cables virus is nice and warm on MH335DW. You could try my virus on the demo unit at fujiya or at the headphone festival if Fitear have it for the demo session.

I will definitely demo the FitEars with your virus. What day will you be there?

I also have a copper and a hybrid cable I will bring to demo with the FitEars.

Thanks!
post #1314 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoog5600 View Post


I will definitely demo the FitEars with your virus. What day will you be there?

I also have a copper and a hybrid cable I will bring to demo with the FitEars.

Thanks!

 

I probably be there on both days. I'll bring all of my cables (SXC24, Silver dragon, Virus) and Sean probably have silver poison and silver widow for you to try too. I'm done burn in and testing on both cables. I'll have a nice listening to both of them tonight before sending it off to Sean tomorrow.

post #1315 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtthefirst View Post

I probably be there on both days. I'll bring all of my cables (SXC24, Silver dragon, Virus) and Sean probably have silver poison and silver widow for you to try too. I'm done burn in and testing on both cables. I'll have a nice listening to both of them tonight before sending it off to Sean tomorrow.
Great! Looking forward to the show.
post #1316 of 3436

Hope to join you guys :beerchug:

post #1317 of 3436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDevil View Post
 

Is it possible to extract FitEar drivers for a reshell? Personally It's like taking extracting a spade from hardened concrete.

Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

If e-earphone is selling 2nd hand FitEars & offering reshell with Rooths & Unique Melody, I guess it is possible to extract.

 

I had a welcoming surprise message from Suyama-san about this (he does read this thread :) !!) and he mentioned that (TheLastDevil is right in) the drivers do get destroyed with the shells. This makes me really extremely curious on what e-earphone's doing. I will have to ask them in my next visit there.

post #1318 of 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

I had a welcoming surprise message from Suyama-san about this (he does read this thread smily_headphones1.gif !!) and he mentioned that (TheLastDevil is right in) the drivers do get destroyed with the shells. This makes me really extremely curious on what e-earphone's doing. I will have to ask them in my next visit there.

Wow, then what Will happen if we owners need a reshell for ourselves in a few years when the shape of the canal changes?
post #1319 of 3436
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post  If e-earphone is selling 2nd hand FitEars & offering reshell with Rooths & Unique Melody, I guess it is possible to extract.

Note that even after a FitEar CIEM is made "some basic work can be done internally" without having to break the shell & nor reshell required. Unfortunately I'm limited in what I can say about this.
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post  I had a welcoming surprise message from Suyama-san about this (he does read this thread :) !!) and he mentioned that (TheLastDevil is right in) the drivers do get destroyed with the shells. This makes me really extremely curious on what e-earphone's doing. I will have to ask them in my next visit there.

 

Well, in my estimation, some drivers don't get ruined. If a technician is dextrous enough, the acrylic can be shaved down to manageable widths around each of the drivers, allowing for limited reassembly inside a new shell. It might not work for every ear, especially if the new ear is really small, but I think it's possible. For the same user to reshell, I think it's definitely possible. FitEar shells aren't completely filled; I've seen a Private 333 with an accidental crack in the shell, and the interior is hollow. It's just that the FitEar M.O. is to place drivers close to the front of the canal (most likely due to compensation for tube and canal resonance due to the shallower fit design), that and the triple-bore design requires a very thinly cured shell, so they have to add in more acrylic later. However, contrary to popular opinion, the shell is not completely filled --- that is a myth (that I erroneously helped popularize back in the day). If people remember user zowki's unfortunate accident a while back, they they'll be able to see that much of the driver assembly is salvageable, at least for a TO GO! 334.

 

The other possibility is that UM/Rooth is using substitute drivers for the re-shell, at least for the ones that do get ruined. It has been generally established that, in the past, Suyama-san has used readily-available parts from Sonion and Knowles, rather than custom-ordering them. Lately, probably because of the popularity of FitEar IEMs and their push for an universal IEM line (thereby increasing order volumes of drivers), they've been switching their drivers to 'sanitized' or 'custom-ordered' drivers, allowing their drivers to have custom laser engraving on them. This practice does a few things --- it allows the manufacturer to simplify workflow --- since they're custom-ordering several drivers that get reused in multiple models (even companies like UE do this as well, so this is standard practice), protocol is simplified by designating the high driver 'FITEAR 1', the midrange receiver 'FITEAR 2', and so on. New soldering/assembly technicians only need to be trained for single numbers rather than complicated code like '29689', '2389', '33A007', or '33AJ007i'. While there are many proprietary drivers that are electroacoustically unique (the new JH FP drivers, quite a few of UE's drivers, and the AKG K3003's TWFK come to mind), the reality is that many of these supposed 'proprietary' drivers are often not all that different from their generic brethren. A single 'UE-HIGH' from an Ulitmate Ears monitor is likely not very different from a generic Sonion 2389 driver, behaving nearly electroacoustically identical to the generic. The same is likely with the 'FITEAR' series of drivers. These days, it's not difficult to "reverse-engineer" a CIEM --- one of the reasons why shops offer the service. They gain experience handling others' designs, and in turn try to create their own product that they consider is superior. It's not really about copying --- even though it does happen, most designers have enough personal pride to not just copy another person's design outright (yes, even the ones from China).

 

Fig. 1: Two drivers currently used in FitEar universal/custom IEMs. While Sonion internal

markings have been scrubbed clean, the likelihood of 'FITEAR 2' being a 33A007 and the

'FITEAR 1' being a 2389 is very high.

 

The last possibility is that some of the drivers that Suyama has ordered are getting 'leaked' into the grey market. I've seen drivers specific for JHA and Westone being sold on Taobao, If people recall, the UM Miracle used surplus parts from the JH13 at the beginning. Of course, UM had to scratch off the markings because those drivers weren't meant for them. The Heir Audio 6.A was a limited production run for the same reason. Knowles accidentally sold a proprietary DTEC driver (not sure from which company) to Dr. Moulton. Thus, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that UM/Rooth has the ability to get its hands on drivers meant for FitEar.

 

Of course, all this is speculation. I have no substantiated evidence that would support the definite reality of any of these possibilities.

post #1320 of 3436
Thread Starter 
I've got more info (aside: I really need to keep my dialogue with Suyama-san alive. He's a fun person to talk to smily_headphones1.gif).

It seems not all FitEar CIEMs are created the same. Some are easier to revive than others. The MH335DWs aren't one of them. That'll explain why in the past we (I?) may have seen more C435s on the 2nd hand market.

My speculation now is that e-earphone may have assumed the MH335DW was just as easy to reshell as other models when in reality they're not.
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