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Beyerdynamic T90 :D - Page 38

post #556 of 2356
T90 I had was brilliant. Only got rid of it because I heard the LCD-2's balanced out of my WA22. I now want another pair to supplement them;) Q701's v the T90's... In short I was utterly unengaged with the Q701's.. Mind you, I heard it on a Lehmann, and a Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear, so it might need more balls to drive them properly.. The T90's have life and verve, with spaciousness. I'm getting another pair:)
post #557 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Any thoughts on how these fit vs. the Sennhesier 5+6 series?  I really like the way the HD 555 & PC 360's fit (clamp nicely, don't slide back on my head very much when lying down) vs. my Denon D2000's and Astro A40's.

 

The fit is similar between the T90 and HD600. The HD600 fits me at 1-click up from the smallest size setting, while the T90 fits at 2-clicks up. The T90 has more clamping force, especially at the smallest setting. Consequently, the T90 shifts around less when you move around, and I'm never worried about them falling off. 

 

Between the two, the HD600 is more comfortable. Not that the T90 is uncomfortable by any means, as you can wear it for hours on end without fatigue. The weight of the HD600 is balanced very well when worn, making them feel much lighter than the T90 (even though the HD600, at 9oz, is only 3oz lighter).

post #558 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonsosnot View Post

 

The fit is similar between the T90 and HD600. The HD600 fits me at 1-click up from the smallest size setting, while the T90 fits at 2-clicks up. The T90 has more clamping force, especially at the smallest setting. Consequently, the T90 shifts around less when you move around, and I'm never worried about them falling off. 

 

Between the two, the HD600 is more comfortable. Not that the T90 is uncomfortable by any means, as you can wear it for hours on end without fatigue. The weight of the HD600 is balanced very well when worn, making them feel much lighter than the T90 (even though the HD600, at 9oz, is only 3oz lighter).

 

I fully agree with your last point. The HD6X0 are more comfortable in the long run.

However, the T90 feels lighter to me and I find the Senns to have a bigger grip than the T90, which is looser. so in that point we disagree

 

I think that overall the Senn are the most comfortable and balanced ones as they have the better fit (not moving round on your head). But everyone's head is different so you better try it for yourself first and in the end they both are pretty good, I wear the T90 for hours a day at work without any problem.

post #559 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Keep coming back to these since they are decently priced here (530$ vs Sennhesier HD 600 510$ vs 650 550$).  Should probably try the AKG Q701's first (360$) since I can actually return them and don't have to worry about my receiver being able to handle the AKG's.

 

Any thoughts on how these fit vs. the Sennhesier 5+6 series?  I really like the way the HD 555 & PC 360's fit (clamp nicely, don't slide back on my head very much when lying down) vs. my Denon D2000's and Astro A40's.

 

You shouldn't worry about your receiver not being able to power the HD600/650 or the T90. Any receiver or integrated amp will love high impedance headphones and will power them to ear bleeding levels before you reach half way on the volume knob. The headphone outputs on receivers actually prefer high impedance cans, so you should worry about Q701's performance out of it. Even though when I plug my K701 into my Onkyo amplifier the sound quality is just marginally worse than out of headphones amps, barely noticable difference and without the ability to A-B compare I probably would never even care about the difference. But DT990 Pro's, DT880 600's and HD650 sound better out of the integrated amp than out of any of my headphone amps. Granted they're all < $350 amps, but still.

 

As for fit, generally Beyers have better fit than Sennheisers. IMHO, all Senns including the HD558 have too much clamping force and feel very big on the head. I never found HD650's very comfy, they never disappear from the head, there's always some spot that bugs me and I have to constantly adjust them, with the Beyers, I just put them on and in about 3 seconds I forget about them.

post #560 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

You shouldn't worry about your receiver not being able to power the HD600/650 or the T90. 

Have to worry, not going to drop 530$+tax on headphones I am not positive will work properly my low end 1713 receiver.  Emailed Denon a few weeks ago about the headphone jack impedance but no one has replied. 

 

Thanks for the responses everyone.

post #561 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Have to worry, not going to drop 530$+tax on headphones I am not positive will work properly my low end 1713 receiver.  Emailed Denon a few weeks ago about the headphone jack impedance but no one has replied. 

 

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

 

Your receiver has more power output into high impedance headphones than almost any separate headphone amp you can get for the money you spent on your receiver. Even the cheapest of cheap integrated amps and receivers have plenty of power. I directly compared about 20 receivers and amps to specific dac/amp combos that cost far more than the receivers and integrated amps themselves, using my Beyer DT880 600 ohms, and there was never any doubt, receivers and integrated amp headphone outputs had far more power and more authority, in fact thats a common trait of using such devices to power headphones, it just sounds more solid and bigger. People on head-fi often underestimate headphone outputs on such devices, even if they've never tried them. I had a guy in hi-fi store laugh at me when I asked him if I can try my 600 ohm headphones on speaker amps, until he heard them and realized they sound better out of a 300$ entry level integrated amp than out of a $1000 dac/amp combo.


Edited by derbigpr - 4/11/13 at 4:32am
post #562 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Have to worry, not going to drop 530$+tax on headphones I am not positive will work properly my low end 1713 receiver.  Emailed Denon a few weeks ago about the headphone jack impedance but no one has replied. 

 

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

And seriously, just an advice, DO NOT fall for the, well, I'm gonna put it rough, "nut cases" who tell you that output impedance on headphone jacks will affect the sound you hear drastically. It wont, its just one of those things that are in reality from a practical point of view pretty irrelevant, but a lot of manufacturers use it purely as a marketing scheme.

You can google some measurements and comparisons between close to 0 output impedance and typical 100-200 ohm output on the typical receiver. Differences? Barely measurable on most headphones, let alone audible. Its only audible on headphones such as low impedance Sennheisers which never have flat impedance/frequency graphs, they always have huge spikes in the mid bass area, so there you would hear an increase in bass on a high impedance source, but only maybe 1-2 db, irrelevant. And of course, in ears and similar very low impedance cans would be better off out of a low impedance source. But 300, 600 ohm headphones we're talking about here...plug them in and enjoy.

 

I would bet my life savings that if you plugged a high impedance headphone into a low impedance and high impedance output and did a blind test comparison, you would not hear any difference, nor would majority of people. I cant hear a major difference between a 220 ohm output and a 1 ohm output with AKG K701 using a $800 DAC, and thats a damn revealing setup and headphones are very low impedance. What makes the difference in sound quality between these low impedance headphone amps and regular headphones outputs is not the output impedance, its the quality of the rest of the components used.

 

I'm not saying lower output impedance is not better, in theory it is, but in reality, the improvements are in majority of cases far too small to be audible, or if they are audible, then they're definitely not worth a couple of hundreds of dollars in upgrades.

Of course, you're not gonna use HD800's or LCD3's out of a 400 dollar receiver, but with headphones you're looking at, you're gonna spend a LOT of money for a VERY SMALL, if any, and sometimes even the opposite of improvement in sound over your receiver. Your Denon is not bad, not bad at all for that money, and you will NOT get a better separate head amp + DAC combo for that money.  I've tried far worse, I've compared my DT880's out of the cheapest receiver they had in store, some Sherwood that costs half of what your Denon does, and it still outclassed the likes of Asus Xonar Essence One and Cambridge Audio Dac magic plus.

 

Not trying to change your mind or anything, just giving you advice after doing my own testing and research, and figuring that majority of stuff I read on audio forums are exaggerations and often have as much to do with reality as pink elephants and unicorns. But I know how it is, I wouldnt have believed this myself a year ago either, try it yourself.

 

Again, I don't wanna cause some flame war here, I'm not saying headphone amps are useless, I have 4 of them myself, but I'm saying that if you don't have one, and you already have a good 400-500 dollar receiver as you do, and you will buy some mid-end headphone, you absolutely without any doubt do not need a separate headphone amp, unless you intend to spend huge dollars and get something high end, because only then you will get a noticable sound quality improvement. As for power, as I said already, you dont have to worry, there's enough of it in your receiver to run three HD650's at the same time, let alone one.


Edited by derbigpr - 4/11/13 at 4:38am
post #563 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by migasson View Post

T90 I had was brilliant. Only got rid of it because I heard the LCD-2's balanced out of my WA22. I now want another pair to supplement them;) Q701's v the T90's... In short I was utterly unengaged with the Q701's.. Mind you, I heard it on a Lehmann, and a Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear, so it might need more balls to drive them properly.. The T90's have life and verve, with spaciousness. I'm getting another pair:)

 

 

same here.  i like a lot of beyer much more than the lcds.  i don't have a t90 but probably going to get one later this year.  if you have a taste like mine, maybe you should try a grado instead?  grado is my second favorite brand. 

post #564 of 2356

Finally got a reply from Denon, apparently the 1713 can even handle the 600 ohm DT990's.  Still worried about the volume since I have mine set to 50-70/100% Volume with the 50 ohm HD 558's and Astro A40's.  I can try the HD 600's from Amazon.ca (the only Canadian retailer I can return them to without paying return shipping+15% re-stocking fee), will likely do that first.

post #565 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Finally got a reply from Denon, apparently the 1713 can even handle the 600 ohm DT990's.  Still worried about the volume since I have mine set to 50-70/100% Volume with the 50 ohm HD 558's and Astro A40's.  I can try the HD 600's from Amazon.ca (the only Canadian retailer I can return them to without paying return shipping+15% re-stocking fee), will likely do that first.

 

 

You will turn your volume knob the same with 600 ohm headphone as with your HD558's to get them about equally loud. Whats your source? Do you have the volume of your source set on 100%? 

post #566 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

You will turn your volume knob the same with 600 ohm headphone as with your HD558's to get them about equally loud. Whats your source? Do you have the volume of your source set on 100%? 

My main music source is itunes (mostly apple lossless, some 256-320), youtube for A State Of Trance podcasts and I have my receiver connected to my mobo (gigabyte x58-ud9) via coaxial.  PC volume is set to 100% and all of my music is boosted (in itunes right click>get info>options>Volume Boost 100%) and of course, the itunes volume is maxed.  The T90 & HD 600 should be fine, rather be safe than sorry when it comes to these things.

 

Denon Email: Yes, they're both okay to use with the 1713. The Beyerdynamic DT 990s (600 ohm) will sound lower in volume than the Denon D7100 (250 ohm) due to the increased resistance.


Edited by MenacingTuba - 4/11/13 at 3:55pm
post #567 of 2356
@MenacingTuba: derbigpr is correct, don't worry. The receiver headphone jack will be able to drive high impedance headphones very well. Due to the higher voltages typically available in such equipment you won't have any trouble driving them beyond ear-bleed levels.
post #568 of 2356

Thanks to everyone for the help!  I accept that my receiver will be fine, still I wish Denon would include the headphone jack specs like manufacturers do for their AMPs and DACs.  Wonder why more people don't buy receivers if they are more than adequate in terms of handling high impedance headphones and offer many features lone AMP/DAC's lack.

 

Anymore thoughts on the T90's vs. HD 6x0's and Q701's from T90 owners?  This seems to be the only place with many T90 owners.  Yes, I do know that set-ups+individuals+external factors are all vary.  


Edited by MenacingTuba - 4/11/13 at 11:21pm
post #569 of 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

My main music source is itunes (mostly apple lossless, some 256-320), youtube for A State Of Trance podcasts and I have my receiver connected to my mobo (gigabyte x58-ud9) via coaxial.  PC volume is set to 100% and all of my music is boosted (in itunes right click>get info>options>Volume Boost 100%) and of course, the itunes volume is maxed.  The T90 & HD 600 should be fine, rather be safe than sorry when it comes to these things.

 

Denon Email: Yes, they're both okay to use with the 1713. The Beyerdynamic DT 990s (600 ohm) will sound lower in volume than the Denon D7100 (250 ohm) due to the increased resistance.

 

 

I just found it weird how you have to turn you volume knob to 100% with HD558's. I cant go past 35% on my Onkyo integrated amp, they get too loud, and as far as I remember, any receiver I tried with my DT880's 600 pretty much maxed out their volume at about 60-70%, with 35-40% being some comfortable listening level.

post #570 of 2356

Volume is set to 50-70% on my receiver depending on the source

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