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Beyerdynamic T90 :D - Page 68

post #1006 of 2270

Hey there people, i'm gonna sell my Sennheiser Momentums this month and am thinking of getting the T90 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea since i never listened to a T90 personally. So what are your thoughts on this, is it worth the money? If somebody here have listened to a Momentum and could talk about the differences it would be nice. I mostly listen to Rock, Metal and Eletro music so... Thanks in advance. Sorry for the bad english xD

post #1007 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headxoxote View Post
 

Hey there people, i'm gonna sell my Sennheiser Momentums this month and am thinking of getting the T90 but i'm not sure if this is a good idea since i never listened to a T90 personally. So what are your thoughts on this, is it worth the money? If somebody here have listened to a Momentum and could talk about the differences it would be nice. I mostly listen to Rock, Metal and Eletro music so... Thanks in advance. Sorry for the bad english xD

 

 

T90s might be a little bright for Rock and Metal...

post #1008 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post
 

 

 

T90s might be a little bright for Rock and Metal...

Thanks for the tip. What you think would be an upgrade overall and good for rock and metal?

post #1009 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headxoxote View Post
 

Thanks for the tip. What you think would be an upgrade overall and good for rock and metal?

 

Check out the HifiMAN HE-500.

post #1010 of 2270

Hi everyone,

 

Although this is my first (long!) post I been roaming around head-fi for quite some years now, I just  dont like to write that much (besides, English is not my native language, so excuse my poor writing)

 

I been into headphones for a little while and currently own: T90, DT880, HD600, TF10, XBA3 and MTP copper. When I bought the T90 I was also considering the HE500. I finally decided to buy the T90 because I like the DT880 over the HD600 (although I find the HD600 more "correct" I enjoy the DT880 more).

 

I find the T90 to also be very nice, detailed and "airy". In fact, these headphones are the only ones which have compelled me to write about. Nonetheless, when one is so close to "perfection" (although I know there is no thing as that!!) the small defects are more evident.

 

You know what Im talking about: the harshness on the sibilants is difficult to swallow!

 

IMO sibilants are a normal part of music and sound, so I dont mind hearing them. To be honest I dont really think that the harshness is entirely the T90s fault. In almost all the "clasically" recorded music (classic, instrumental, jazz and all non overproduced music) I find the T90 to be faultless. However, I also like to hear some pop music. I you hear pop music even in the most humble radio you will hear that the sibilants are overemphasized. I mean, I have heard live (non-amped) singing and the sibilants are not so noticeable (unless the singer is next to your ear!).

 

For the price and faultless performance of the T90, with more classically oriented recordings, I was expecting to be able to use them for all my music and not only for very select genres. Well, by looking at the web measurements and hearing to frequency swepts I can say that the highs peak is very localized and no too prominent. Normally, Im kind of a purist when it comes to using eqs and more so with these pricy headphones. However, this time I felt that a slight equalization was exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

Im used to using frequency analysis tools (at work) and equalizers (in my hobby) so after some while I got this setting for parametric peak eq. I compensated two high freq peaks and boosted a valley in the mids a little. I dont believe on violating the headphone basic character by using eq, so I made the lowest possible modifications to the nature of the T90s. I post it so you can try it for yourself. These can be used in most parametric eq like the rockbox equalizer (Im assuming they use 2nd order peak filters for the intermediate bands).

 

q1=4;
q2=4;
q3=3;
w1=4800hz;
w2=6800hz;
w3=9500hz;
k1=3dB;
k2=-2.5dB;
k3=-3.5dB;

 

The net effect is VERY slight, it is almost not noticeable at first. When hearing more carefully you will see that you can still hear all the sibilants and details but you wont feel that it is harsh. I rally like my T90s right now :). These peak filters are close so that the net effect compensates a little between them.

 

If you are inclined to it, here is the Matlab code to see the FR of these filters (remember to change the plot to Hz as it defaults to rad/s)

 

clear
q1=4;
q2=4;
q3=3;
w1=4800*2*pi;
w2=6800*2*pi;
w3=9500*2*pi;
k1=10^(3/20);
k2=10^(-2.5/20);
k3=10^(-3.5/20);
f1=1-(1-k1)*tf([w1/q1 0],[1 w1/q1 w1^2]);
f2=1-(1-k2)*tf([w2/q2 0],[1 w2/q2 w2^2]);
f3=1-(1-k3)*tf([w3/q3 0],[1 w3/q3 w3^2]);
w=logspace(log10(20*2*pi),log10(20e3*2*pi),1000);
bode(f1*f2*f3,w); grid

 

I really think that Beyerdynamic purposely made the T90s less than perfect, just look at the T1 FR vs the T90s. It is so close and the technology so similar that a perfected T90 would made the T1 useless. I havent had the opportunity to hear the T1, but many have stated that it is similar to the T90. Well, with this eq, I believe that it may be just a notch closer.

post #1011 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatucho View Post
 

Hi everyone,

 

Although this is my first (long!) post I been roaming around head-fi for quite some years now, I just  dont like to write that much (besides, English is not my native language, so excuse my poor writing)

 

I been into headphones for a little while and currently own: T90, DT880, HD600, TF10, XBA3 and MTP copper. When I bought the T90 I was also considering the HE500. I finally decided to buy the T90 because I like the DT880 over the HD600 (although I find the HD600 more "correct" I enjoy the DT880 more).

 

I find the T90 to also be very nice, detailed and "airy". In fact, these headphones are the only ones which have compelled me to write about. Nonetheless, when one is so close to "perfection" (although I know there is no thing as that!!) the small defects are more evident.

 

You know what Im talking about: the harshness on the sibilants is difficult to swallow!

 

IMO sibilants are a normal part of music and sound, so I dont mind hearing them. To be honest I dont really think that the harshness is entirely the T90s fault. In almost all the "clasically" recorded music (classic, instrumental, jazz and all non overproduced music) I find the T90 to be faultless. However, I also like to hear some pop music. I you hear pop music even in the most humble radio you will hear that the sibilants are overemphasized. I mean, I have heard live (non-amped) singing and the sibilants are not so noticeable (unless the singer is next to your ear!).

 

For the price and faultless performance of the T90, with more classically oriented recordings, I was expecting to be able to use them for all my music and not only for very select genres. Well, by looking at the web measurements and hearing to frequency swepts I can say that the highs peak is very localized and no too prominent. Normally, Im kind of a purist when it comes to using eqs and more so with these pricy headphones. However, this time I felt that a slight equalization was exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

Im used to using frequency analysis tools (at work) and equalizers (in my hobby) so after some while I got this setting for parametric peak eq. I compensated two high freq peaks and boosted a valley in the mids a little. I dont believe on violating the headphone basic character by using eq, so I made the lowest possible modifications to the nature of the T90s. I post it so you can try it for yourself. These can be used in most parametric eq like the rockbox equalizer (Im assuming they use 2nd order peak filters for the intermediate bands).

 

q1=4;
q2=4;
q3=3;
w1=4800hz;
w2=6800hz;
w3=9500hz;
k1=3dB;
k2=-2.5dB;
k3=-3.5dB;

 

The net effect is VERY slight, it is almost not noticeable at first. When hearing more carefully you will see that you can still hear all the sibilants and details but you wont feel that it is harsh. I rally like my T90s right now :). These peak filters are close so that the net effect compensates a little between them.

 

If you are inclined to it, here is the Matlab code to see the FR of these filters (remember to change the plot to Hz as it defaults to rad/s)

 

clear
q1=4;
q2=4;
q3=3;
w1=4800*2*pi;
w2=6800*2*pi;
w3=9500*2*pi;
k1=10^(3/20);
k2=10^(-2.5/20);
k3=10^(-3.5/20);
f1=1-(1-k1)*tf([w1/q1 0],[1 w1/q1 w1^2]);
f2=1-(1-k2)*tf([w2/q2 0],[1 w2/q2 w2^2]);
f3=1-(1-k3)*tf([w3/q3 0],[1 w3/q3 w3^2]);
w=logspace(log10(20*2*pi),log10(20e3*2*pi),1000);
bode(f1*f2*f3,w); grid

 

I really think that Beyerdynamic purposely made the T90s less than perfect, just look at the T1 FR vs the T90s. It is so close and the technology so similar that a perfected T90 would made the T1 useless. I havent had the opportunity to hear the T1, but many have stated that it is similar to the T90. Well, with this eq, I believe that it may be just a notch closer.

 

Yea I think the issue is not with imperfection but rather power matching, mybe the Tesla Driver needs a 600 ohm resitance and a power source to feed it's volt requirements before that silbilant treble can be tamed. 

post #1012 of 2270

I'm honestly a bit surprised about all the talk of sibilant treble. I'm quite sensitive to treble, so headphones like Grados and Alessandros are very fatiguing to listen to. But I have no problems with the T90. People say that the T90 is like a DT880 with more treble, but I disagree. The DT880's treble is a little grainy, dry, and eventually becomes annoying, while the T90's treble is precise, transparent, and smooth.

 

The only time I hear sibilant treble is with recordings featuring less than stellar production (like all modern metal). Listening to most metal is usually a disappointing experience. I think the T90's transparent nature ruthlessly exposes bad recordings.

post #1013 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolkswagenFox View Post
 

I'm honestly a bit surprised about all the talk of sibilant treble. I'm quite sensitive to treble, so headphones like Grados and Alessandros are very fatiguing to listen to. But I have no problems with the T90. People say that the T90 is like a DT880 with more treble, but I disagree. The DT880's treble is a little grainy, dry, and eventually becomes annoying, while the T90's treble is precise, transparent, and smooth.

 

The only time I hear sibilant treble is with recordings featuring less than stellar production (like all modern metal). Listening to most metal is usually a disappointing experience. I think the T90's transparent nature ruthlessly exposes bad recordings.

 

mmm sounds good, yea the 880 is a little grainy. Looking forward to the T90 :3 

post #1014 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolkswagenFox View Post
 

I'm honestly a bit surprised about all the talk of sibilant treble. I'm quite sensitive to treble, so headphones like Grados and Alessandros are very fatiguing to listen to. But I have no problems with the T90. People say that the T90 is like a DT880 with more treble, but I disagree. The DT880's treble is a little grainy, dry, and eventually becomes annoying, while the T90's treble is precise, transparent, and smooth.

 

The only time I hear sibilant treble is with recordings featuring less than stellar production (like all modern metal). Listening to most metal is usually a disappointing experience. I think the T90's transparent nature ruthlessly exposes bad recordings.

 

exactly! with good recordings there is no sibliance with the T90. It just reproduces the sound of the recording and doesn't take anything away, good or bad.

 

Some people don't like that so there are headphones that are rolled off or mask that sound.

 

For me, I rather have that detail and clear sound, thats what good headphones are for.

post #1015 of 2270

Great or well recorded and mastered stuff sounds Great with the T90's.

 

Not so great stuff sounds not so great!

 

A.

post #1016 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

Great or well recorded and mastered stuff sounds Great with the T90's.

Not so great stuff sounds not so great!

A.

good to hear. my collection is almost all 16/24bit at this point :3
post #1017 of 2270

I have mine for sale if anyone is interested. 

post #1018 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

Great or well recorded and mastered stuff sounds Great with the T90's.

Not so great stuff sounds not so great!

A.

Well said. This is how I hear the T90 too!
post #1019 of 2270

These are so close to been perfect, but there's one thing I can't put my finger on that makes them a bit far from perfect. 

 

is it the treble? the harshness? im trying to figure it out. On some genres they are flawless then on others I find myself been really annoyed by something in the highs :/ 

 

 

I guess after the honeymood period I might be starting to find faults.

post #1020 of 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flognuts View Post

These are so close to been perfect, but there's one thing I can't put my finger on that makes them a bit far from perfect. 

is it the treble? the harshness? im trying to figure it out. On some genres they are flawless then on others I find myself been really annoyed by something in the highs :/ 


I guess after the honeymood period I might be starting to find faults.

btw who of u consider ur self treble heads? Im one apprently as I find no fault with the he 400 treble ... that said these might b end game for my maybe...
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