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Most Overrated Drummers? - Page 4

post #46 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by zardon View Post

Good point. Ringo Starr was a great 'character' who fit in well with John, George and Paul. The classic comment was when John Lennon was asked 'So is Ringo Starr the best drummer in the world?'. John gave his trademark smirk and said 'He isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles'.

 

I agree. Music shouldn't be all about technical ability. It can be important, obviously in classical music, but mainstream music needs more characters and uniqueness. I mean listen to David Bowie, hardly the best singer in the world, but he sounds unique. thats worth more than anything IMO.

 

When I listen to bands like Dream Theater, I love the playing. Its great to listen to. Some of the timings and complex fills and offbeat rhythms, but sometimes I have to stop listening, as it can get too much.

No, Lennon said he was the perfect drummer for The Beatles.

 

The guy in Dream Theatre reveres Ringo.

post #47 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Neil Peart was my favorite for decades until I was introduced to Jazz.   My two favorites now are Dave Weckl and Antonio Sanchez.   There are listeners and there are drummers.  Sanchez and Weckl represent the best in the world of jazz (among many others).  If any doubts I ask you to google each of them for 20 min or so and see what they can do (and teach).  They both teach drumming but Weckl in particular has given back more to the drumming world than perhaps any drummer living today.  He flat out loves teaching.  I am no musiciam but am floored by his willingness to help others and watching his teaching videos.  As far as Sanchez and Weckl , I have read that they both chuckle when they say it's usually the non-musicians that applaud their super fast insane licks where the normal musicisans in the audiences appreciate the other underneaath happenings that they carry the music with.

 

For anyone that is not familiar with Antonio Sanchez.  He is here with the Pat Metheny Group.  If you don't care to watch the whole 7min at least go to the 4:20 mark onward to see a master on his instrument.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efERFCN0B_0

 

Two words:

 

TONY WILLIAMS!

post #48 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Two words:

 

TONY WILLIAMS!

 

darthsmile.gif

 

 

Lately this guy has been blowing my mind:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T39ZaFT1kA0

 

His brain seems to work extremely similarly to mine.

post #49 of 176
Well, i hate calling anyone who works as hard as a drummer overrated. They pour their heart and soul and sweat into their work.

Here is a neat twist: great drumming albums. And i will kick it off with a few less obvious but absolutely stellar selections.
Heck. Everyone has heard led zep 4. So here are some hidden gems with ace drumming.

1. Dust - their self titled debut, and second record "hard attack". Awesome, relentless work by Mark Bell, later dubbed Marky Ramone as a member of the ramones.

2. Cactus - self titled, and also the self titled release by Beck, Boggart, and Appice. Amazing skin work by the incredible Carmine Appice. The BB&A album features mr jeff beck on guitar. Textbook power trio stuff of the highest order.

3. Journey- self titled debut. Before they became a pop band, journey were busy trying to make something like 'Santana III' meets space rock. And their early drummer, aynsley dunbar is one of my faves. He has drummed for so many folks. From frank zappa to whitesnake. But he is just killer on this little-heard debut album by a band that completely reinvented itself just a few years later...

4. Can - ege bamyasi. Jaki liebezeit is a machine. And his playing almost presages the drum machine at times. But other times his funky breaks are too human to call "motorik". Amazing record, and in my top 10 of all time.

Cheers...
The wuss
post #50 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuss View Post

Well, i hate calling anyone who works as hard as a drummer overrated. They pour their heart and soul and sweat into their work.

 

I think it has less to do with the drummers themselves and more to do with the people who listen and have opinions about them.

post #51 of 176

Dude have you ever seen Terry Bozzio play live? Yeah he has a massive drum set with lots of cymbals, but he uses the whole dang thing. I guarantee not many people in the world have as much individual limb control as he does. His ostenato beats are ridiculous. I can't even describe how awesome it was watching him play. He plays melodies using the cymbals, toms, and other instruments on his drum set on top of the constant ostenato beat he keeps going with his feet.


Edited by FlyinAg - 6/5/12 at 4:09am
post #52 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuss View Post

Well, i hate calling anyone who works as hard as a drummer overrated. They pour their heart and soul and sweat into their work.
Here is a neat twist: great drumming albums. And i will kick it off with a few less obvious but absolutely stellar selections.
2. Cactus - self titled, and also the self titled release by Beck, Boggart, and Appice. Amazing skin work by the incredible Carmine Appice. The BB&A album features mr jeff beck on guitar. Textbook power trio stuff of the highest order.
Cheers...
The wuss

 

Carmine Appice!    Excellent playing on that LP! beerchug.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveru View Post

 

I think it has less to do with the drummers themselves and more to do with the people who listen and have opinions about them.

 

Very true, some of the world's finest drummers adore and revere Charlie Watts for his sound, his taste, his touch, his style.........

The great drummers respect Ringo. Ask Ginger Baker or Phil Collins about Ringo.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinAg View Post

Dude have you ever seen Terry Bozzio play live? Yeah he has a massive drum set with lots of cymbals, but he uses the whole dang thing. I guarantee not many people in the world have as much individual limb control as he does. His ostenato beats are ridiculous. I can't even describe how awesome it was watching him play. He plays melodies using the cymbals, toms, and other instruments on his drum set on top of the constant ostenato beat he keeps going with his feet.

 

He played with JEFF Beck!  FRANK Zappa, fer cryin' out loud!

Genuis drummer!

post #53 of 176

Peart is not over-rated, his skills and musciality are quite significant. I am a huge Rush fan, but also love Jazz, and I do play the drums for over 25 years now. While Jazz drumming is the ultimate showcase of fluid movement and finding those hidden spaces in time that can hold a beat or a hit, that freedom is quite liberating. I can promise you some of the finest jazz drummers would find it very, very, very, difficult to be constrained into the tightness that is the hallmark of progressive rock and progessive metal and remain musical. The same might be said for some of the great impressionist artists if they were forced to paint in the hyper-realism style that predominated early art. Jazz allows the drummer to have space and room, freedom to roam. I think it would be very difficult to imagine Buddy Rich (who is just astounding, almost beyond description) trying to play Rosetta Stoned by Tool. I hope many of you have had the opportunity to listen to Daney Carrey from Tool, he is a freak of nature and as polyrythmic as any Jazz drummer, in fact he was trained in jazz but grew into what he is now.

post #54 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

Peart is not over-rated, his skills and musciality are quite significant. I am a huge Rush fan, but also love Jazz, and I do play the drums for over 25 years now. While Jazz drumming is the ultimate showcase of fluid movement and finding those hidden spaces in time that can hold a beat or a hit, that freedom is quite liberating. I can promise you some of the finest jazz drummers would find it very, very, very, difficult to be constrained into the tightness that is the hallmark of progressive rock and progessive metal and remain musical. The same might be said for some of the great impressionist artists if they were forced to paint in the hyper-realism style that predominated early art. Jazz allows the drummer to have space and room, freedom to roam. I think it would be very difficult to imagine Buddy Rich (who is just astounding, almost beyond description) trying to play Rosetta Stoned by Tool. I hope many of you have had the opportunity to listen to Daney Carrey from Tool, he is a freak of nature and as polyrythmic as any Jazz drummer, in fact he was trained in jazz but grew into what he is now.

Mr. Sonic,

Peart is OK in my books! My hat goes off to the guy!

You have really summed it up quite well, IMHO.

Peart is an orchestrator. He plays almost the same thing every night with very little improvisation.

Jazz drummers are improvisors, they play something different every night.

So I would argue that Peart (and his brethren) cannot be fairly compared to a Jazz drummer. Both approaches have their places and are both valid and important approaches to making great music.

 

"Give the drummer some!"

       James Brown

post #55 of 176

Chris J, I couldn't agree with you more. While the two styles of course have many similarities, direct comparison is very difficult, plus in many ways purely subjective. Suffice to say, they all kick my ass so badly I feel it in my sleep!

post #56 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

Peart is not over-rated, his skills and musciality are quite significant. I am a huge Rush fan, but also love Jazz, and I do play the drums for over 25 years now. While Jazz drumming is the ultimate showcase of fluid movement and finding those hidden spaces in time that can hold a beat or a hit, that freedom is quite liberating. I can promise you some of the finest jazz drummers would find it very, very, very, difficult to be constrained into the tightness that is the hallmark of progressive rock and progessive metal and remain musical. The same might be said for some of the great impressionist artists if they were forced to paint in the hyper-realism style that predominated early art. Jazz allows the drummer to have space and room, freedom to roam. I think it would be very difficult to imagine Buddy Rich (who is just astounding, almost beyond description) trying to play Rosetta Stoned by Tool. I hope many of you have had the opportunity to listen to Daney Carrey from Tool, he is a freak of nature and as polyrythmic as any Jazz drummer, in fact he was trained in jazz but grew into what he is now.

Hmmm.    Not sure I agree.  Generally speaking, jazz drummers started as rock and pop players and are very comfortable there where I think the learning curve or transition from a rocker to a jazzer (drummer) takes a lot more finesse.  I don't wish to argue the point, just my opinion.  Peace...

post #57 of 176

I certainly don't wish to argue the point either, but are you sure most start as rock and pop drummers? I could see their early forays being uninstructed efforts in those areas, but I would also be quite surprised if most accomplished jazz drummers actually pursued others styles to the extent that they became significantly "stylized". Truthfully, I have no way of knowing that of course.

post #58 of 176
Thread Starter 

Ideas about "musicality" and preferences aside, I've always felt that jazz drumming is technically much much harder.

post #59 of 176
There's quite a few musical genres that incorporate a syncopated rhythm, notably many of them are African-derived but it has been around since the middle ages.
Edited by grokit - 6/5/12 at 2:12pm
post #60 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

Chris J, I couldn't agree with you more. While the two styles of course have many similarities, direct comparison is very difficult, plus in many ways purely subjective. Suffice to say, they all kick my ass so badly I feel it in my sleep!

Man, that is funny!
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