Yeah. Probably in my top 5. I've been going back through all my tool lately and was just blown away (once again).
I just noticed that you are one of the few people who quote Charles Darwin correctly.
One of these days I have to read some Darwin.
Apologies to those who responded to my post (144) I was away (hospital not jail).
Sorry guys but in general polls are a crock, don't forget 'The Edge' has been voted the worlds best guitarist in a number of polls on a number of occasions, I rest my case. The Edge is Irish also Irish are Rory Gallagher, Eric Bell, Henry McCullough, Garry Moore etc. The Edge is not in the same league as those guys
I would love to see the George Martin quote on Mr Starkey's drumming and had Mr Lennon slipped him some wacky backy before he made it. Anyway guys its what you like.
First of all, let me tell you that you are an example of infinite patience (given the content and tone of some answers you received), i wish i had 1% of your tolerance.
Your first post is crytal clear, you are not saying that "the robot" (NP) is bad drummer, but just that he dosn't live up to the standar of N1 drummer (and even forgetting for a while that talking about n1 of something in music is imposible, and plain stupid)
I think exactly the same about THE ROBOT and his LITTLE ROBOFANBOYS.
You were very kind and tolerant with your responses, but i wont, THE ROBOT shouldnt be even in a top100 list. He is the more mediocre, boring, reiterative, pretentious drummer in existance. Not his fault though, but fault of the little robofanboys.
Who cares if the guy hits the center of the snare, or whatever surface? as one mentioned before trying to explain his skills....that is a great skill for an archer. That only proves how narrow, constricted, binary, is the mind of that guy.
From one cymbal, or snare, or tom, you can pull off a lot of different sounds depending in wich part of the surface you hit. There is ton os musicality potential in those instruments, tone, pitch, sustein, volume and every sound quality you could imagine.
But not for a Robot, a robot thinks in 0s and 1s.
And you all robofans, no wonder, will adore such robot.
The fact that you jump over the Manveru as if he was disrespecting your ROBOGOD or as if he wasn't understanding something is the prove that you can only see the world in black and white. He from the first post, stated that THE ROBOT wasn't bad or anything, just not the n1.
I remember when someone told me, after namig Carter Beauford as a great drumming inspiration, "ohhh, but did you heard Rush...did you heard Neil Peart?"
I checked it, my first impresion after seeing that tom robwer song, well there should be more than this, this is extremely boring song and drumming....so i checked him playin jazz with a big band or something.....very poor drumming, and zero attitude or blood going on there. Then after 2 months i thought, well i have to try harder, there is no way this guy appears everywere N1 or so for no reason....so i checked the best albums of rush.....all the same little patterns, fills, etc....some songs were 001111001, others were 1100011 but that is it....MUSIC? o lets leave that to the guitarrist or bass players, drumming is a machine thing......DINAMICS? Oh no Sir, that is for jazzy players...here i'm doing some sharp prog rock, is a 0 or 1 thing you know.
I wouldnt be saying all of this if wasnt for the blind and deaf ROBOFANS, The ROBOT isnt the issue, he does he jobs as good as he can, is just that he is a N1000 not N1
I'm not exactly the same person I was when I originally started this thread, and I'll admit that back then I obviously had at least some amount of intentions to merely be "controversial." Not in a way where I took it super seriously or thought I was on a mission or something, just venting something I was feeling really. When you start a thread on a topic which in many aspects boils down to personal preferences/experiences, the result is extremely predictable.
That being said, to any drummers out there...Try playing something really fast and really really quiet. Now try playing something really really quiet and really really slow. Now try playing things really fast, really slow, really loud, and really quiet all at the same time. Now compare how difficult that is to smashing your cymbals and playing straight 16ths and rudiments around a bunch of toms at a constant tempo at a constant loud dynamic.
Instead of only hitting the dead center of a drum or the edge of a crash cymbal, try getting 10 different tones, textures, sounds, pitches, techniques, etc out of every individual component of a drum set. Try doing the same thing with things that aren't even part of a drum set. Try expressing a range of different feelings and keeping things interesting and fresh with nothing more than a kick, snare, and cymbal. Or just a snare. Or only toms. Or just a pair of hi hats. Push the envelope and do things that are "uncool," bizarre, or don't make any sense.
I'm not saying it's some ultimate truth which is applicable under ever imaginable context, but these are the types of things I personally have been caused to both intellectually and emotionally relate to due my experiences in life. That's it.
manveru, this year i found how difficult is to play slow...is extremely hard to play whole notes, or even quarter notes at 40bpm, consistenly, without "rushing" or delaying. Not only a slow tempo, but also with medium tempos with very few notes. The more space (time) between the notes, the more difficult is to mantain a steady pulse, because you lose the reference (unless you work specificaly on that as you say). For the other hand there is nothing easier, or more easy for everyone to train, that playing sixting notes in a row, at medium/fast tempos.
I also agree about Bonham being overrated...good drummer of course, a lot of power, but if peart and bonham are n1 and n2, then that would mean that they are more musical or skilled than Roy haynes, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, Brian Blade, Jack Dejohnette, Art Blakey, papa Jo Jones, Philly Jones, Max roach, Buddy rich, Joe Morello, Steve gadd, Tain Watts, Peter Erskine,Montez Coleman etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
I bet that people who says peart and bonham are the best, had never even heard of any of those names before.
If you are a peart obsequent reading this, and you want to enlight me about peart deserving the status of N1 drummer of the world (wich is the discussion here, if peart deserves that title, or if he is OVERRATED) .............then please go and have the courage to state in a public forum that Peart is better than just one, any, of the previous list......note: that will assure you to look like a fool no matter the name you pick to even compare with peart (wich is 3 or 4 steps under them in a ladder of 6 steps)
Is peart even a good drummer...i dont know, in my opinion NO, but that is subjective.
Is he the N1 drummer of all time?
He is not even close, he is far far far far far far away from even deserving a top100.
What he does is EASY, REPETITIVE, BORING, NARROW, ROBOTIC, BINARY, etc, etc.
No wonder he still is taking lesson (too late!)
He is not even the best prog drummer, Mike Portnoy and gavin Harrison are better than peart in every level, musical , technical, sound, etc etc.
He is the best of NONE.
For you ROBOFANBOY out there, dont forget to mention one drummer of the previous list that you say is less drummer than the robot. Dont forget you will look like a fool. And obviously before doing such a bold statement i suggest you to go and check the drumming of those guys. Special advice, don't put Elvin Jones even in the same sentence along with the robot, you may die of an overdose of ignorance.
I can relate to a lot of what you're trying to say, especially in regards to other drummers even within the prog rock category, haha. Although I don't think your current method of trying to communicate is likely to be very efficient or successful. Anyone who lacks empathy, views the world with an abstract magical mindset, or doesn't understand much about human behavior and communication would likely react to your posts with blind indignation, not taking you seriously, or taking you too seriously, haha.
I think the most important thing to remember is that every conflict in life is a misunderstanding. So called differences in "opinion" or "perception" don't exist. Everything happens and exists for a reason. And I mean tangible, physical reasons, not anything abstract. Cause and effect. Everyone has had different experiences in life since the time they were born which causes them to think and feel differently. Everyone's experiences are real and based on some sort of truth. The trick is to be able to tell a person's reactions or conclusions from the larger reality on which they are originally based. The important thing is to try to focus on and uncover the underlying facts and objective reality of any given situation, instead of getting distracted by confusing personal preferences with objective facts. If all participants in a conversation are able to do that, there is nothing which we all can't agree upon or understand.
For what it's worth......
I have seen RUSH 28 times, mainly in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Rush was my favorite band growing up (The Who and Genesis would round out top 3). Neil was my favorite drummer UNTIL I was introduced to and started to understand jazz, particulary jazz fusion.
Without trying to sound condescending to "rockers" so many of the jazz drummers are on such a higher level. It's like night and day. Don't forget, pretty much every jazz drummer cut his teeth on playing rock classics.
"Neil the Robot"?? It's funny, I gotta think tagging any drummer as a "robot" would be a complete insult. A great drummer adapts and "gives space" to his other bandmates and is not meant to be a dominating factor (but they certainly can be depending on the music). This is what makes jazz drummers so great. The ability to adapt and be so multi-dimmensional. This is why I say Keith Moon was the most over-rated rock drummer with his one dimentional reckless abandon style. (but, yes, I loved The Who)
2 years ago I saw Dave Weckl at a local House of Blues. The week before, Mike Portnoy was there. He may not have know **** from shinola but one of the workers there said Weckl was FAR MORE impressive and accomplished. This is coming from a guy that apparently has no bias cause I don't think he knew much about either guy. Just saying.....
When talking greatest musicians you should almost separate rock from jazz. The styles are different and the demands and what is being asked of the musicians could be quite different as well. I hate smooth jazz but many of these guys are phennomenal players. Norman Brown on guitar or Nathan East playing bass? Good Lord!!!
Really depends on the music somewhat too. Some music might demand aggressive drumming in the forefront.
I like Peart and started following Rush in 1974 when he took over for original Rush drummer, John Rutsy on the Fly By Night album. Peart was may favorite drummer growing up.
My bigger point was a list I saw of top richest $$ drummers and I wanted to throw up by the true "hacks" that were near the top of the list but guys that inarguably could drum circles around them didn't even make the list. Popularity/wealth/talent are separate things.