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Most Overrated Drummers?

post #1 of 176
Thread Starter 

What drummers do you think are overrated? Here's a few of mine:

 

1. Neil Peart - Seriously, what do people see in this guy? Just because he's in Rush doesn't make him good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's terrible or anything, but I at least have never seen/heard him do anything really impressive. Overall very forgettable.

 

2. John Bonham - It seems to me like there's a similar "he's good because he's in Led Zeppelin" syndrome going on here, BUT I actually hesitate a little to call him overrated. I think he does actually live up to his name for the most part. Waaaaaaay better than Peart. Still, I don't think he's quite as good as some people  make him out to be.

 

3. ^Those were the ones I feel I see most often, but also pretty much anyone else who's from a famous or well-regarded classic rock or older prog rock band. Yes, some of them are really good for what they are, and some of them make fantastic music, but in several cases the fact that they often make "best drummers in the world" lists is kind of a joke.

 

4. Dennis Chambers - See this all the time too. Kind of a 50/50 thing for me. Sometimes he actually is really good, and some of the things he can do are absolutely jaw-dropping. In terms of musicality though, he has a tendency to be really boring and dry.

 

5. Thomas Lang - Same problem as Dennis Chambers, only bad 100% of the time. Very robotic and painfully boring. Yeah, he can go super duper fast and do flashy stick tricks...so what?

 

6. Terry Bozzio - I have a HUGE gimmicky drumset and all sorts of really cool exotic sounding cymbals. Do you like me now? 

 

Also just noticed that this is my 666th post. evil_smiley.gif


Edited by manveru - 8/12/12 at 3:13am
post #2 of 176

I like Peart as a rock drummer but he is certainly a few notches down from the great jazz drummers.

 

I've seen Rush 27 times but mostly in the 70's and 80's.  He was a huge upgrade over original John Rutsy, plus he started writing all the lyrics.  Also from Caress of Steel forward the music certainly got a bit deeper and more progressive but it is not known whether this was because of Neil or in spite of him.

 

No arguments with anyone else on the list. 

post #3 of 176

John Bonham is a fantastic drummer. I'm glad you hesitated to include him, but he shouldn't be included at all. 

 

He absolutely lives up to his name. He was my favorite member of Led Zeppelin and for good reason. 

 

Have you watched / heard any of the live Moby Dick recordings? 14 minutes of amazing drum solo...Some of which is done with his hands. It's crazy. He ran double bass before it was cool (like...2 bass drums, not just pedals) too. 

 

tl;dr - I love John Bonham...You hear his name on those lists for good reason.

post #4 of 176

Interesting concept “overrated”.

 

Let’s take Neil Peart since he is on your list.  I am not a Rush fan so I have not spent any time listening to how well (or not) he plays within that band’s construct.  Being a hobby drummer myself, I appreciate the work he has done to promote drumming and percussion in the industry.  I have friends that really enjoy his playing with Rush and that is good enough for them and me: not my cup of tea but so what?

 

No one can say that Ringo Starr was / is a good technical drummer, certainly not deserving of all the adulation he received with those other three shaggy lads, right?  But in my opinion, Ringo FIT the Beatles.  He played well in the pocket and was a good time keeper.  He played nothing flashy but what he did play was totally in the spirit of their songs and it is hard to imagine any other drummer on the throne behind those Ludwigs.

 

To me, a good drummer is one who keeps rock solid time, doesn’t feel the need to fill every measure with strokes, and puts in a few  strokes where you perhaps don’t expect them but consistent with the mood of the composition.

 

In my mind, a bigger sin is overplaying.

post #5 of 176

I've always had problems when people use the term overrated. It's really like you have the pretention of be the "know-it-all" person. Calling someone overrated when he has been a major influence in rock music, that he is an idol and a model of a lot of good drummers, and that he is an a acclaimed  drummer by the critic AND the drummer community. Seriously, who the hell are you and what have you ever done to even call people like Neil Peart overrated and saying that he is very forgettable?

 

That is really pretentious of you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkucr1jJpQ

Doing a 9 minutes drum solo of this level in front of thousands of people.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveru View Post

What drummers do you think are overrated? Here's a few of mine:

 

1. Neil Peart - Seriously, what do people see in this guy? Just because he's in Rush doesn't make him good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's terrible or anything, but I at least have never seen/heard him do anything really impressive. Overall very forgettable.

 

2. John Bonham - It seems to me like there's a similar "he's good because he's in Led Zeppelin" syndrome going on here, BUT I actually hesitate a little to call him overrated. I think he does actually live up to his name for the most part. Waaaaaaay better than Peart. Still, I don't think he's quite as good as some people  make him out to be.

 

3. ^Those were the ones I feel I see most often, but also pretty much anyone else who's from a famous or well-regarded classic rock or older prog rock band. Yes, some of them are really good for what they are, and some of them make fantastic music, but in several cases the fact that they often make "best drummers in the world" lists is kind of a joke.

 

4. Dennis Chambers - See this all the time too. Kind of a 50/50 thing for me. Sometimes he actually is really good, and some of the things he can do are absolutely jaw-dropping. In terms of musicality though, he has a tendency to be really boring and dry.

 

5. Thomas Lang - Same problem as Dennis Chambers, only bad 100% of the time. Very robotic and painfully boring. Yeah, he can go super duper fast and do flashy stick tricks...so what?

 

6. Terry Bozzio - I have a HUGE gimmicky drumset and all sorts of really cool exotic sounding cymbals. Do you like me now? 

 

Also just noticed that this is my 666th post. evil_smiley.gif



 

post #6 of 176
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post


Yup, those Moby Dick recordings are amazing. I did teeter over even mentioning him at all, because I do think he's actually good. The only reason I did is because I feel like in the past I've witnessed some blind hype around him.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA View Post


I agree with you completely about what the measure of a good drummer can be. I think Ringo is very good in that respect as well. One of my favorite drummers is Sam Fogarino (Interpol), and he certainly has a very simple style. Maybe my #3 was a little too sweeping in that respect, but the reason I say that is because I often see people make lists of "best drummers in the world" and only include those people, which I think is silly. If it was a favorite drummers list, well that's a different story...

post #7 of 176

Neil Peart and Bonham are among the best "rock" drummers. There's no disputing that. There might be better out there that never became as popular, but those two are definitely not overrated.

 

Overall, I agree with Spyro, the best jazz drummers take things to another level with more complex timing and syncopation. 

 

 


Edited by robm321 - 4/18/12 at 10:48am
post #8 of 176
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinc View Post

I've always had problems when people use the term overrated. It's really like you have the pretention of be the "know-it-all" person. Calling someone overrated when he has been a major influence in rock music, that he is an idol and a model of a lot of good drummers, and that he is an a acclaimed  drummer by the critic AND the drummer community. Seriously, who the hell are you and what have you ever done to even call people like Neil Peart overrated and saying that he is very forgettable?

 

That is really pretentious of you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkucr1jJpQ

Doing a 9 minutes drum solo of this level in front of thousands of people.


I apologize. I wasn't intending to come off as pretentious or angry, though I realize how it might come off that way. It's not that I'm trying to say that any of these guys are outright bad, or that I'm trying to condemn them, and it's not that I think my words are law or something. Those are just my own thoughts based on my personal preferences and experience. What is "good" and what I perceive as "overrated" is of course to whatever extent subjective. Others can and do like Peart and I have no problem with that. I just don't think he's actually as great as he's often made out to be, and due to my preferences I find his playing to be more or less bland. That drum solo is actually a prime example as to why :)

post #9 of 176

manveru:

 

No worries or apologies required.  Let’s face it: we are passionate about music and that is the reason we spend time on this forum.  Sometimes in our zeal to make a point, we take less than a world view on a given topic.  At least I find myself prone to this behavior.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make.  There is an awful lot of hyperbole out there and one person’s Best Drummer (or anything else) is very likely someone else’s ho-hum.  For example, for years The Rolling Stones were hyped as “The World’s Greatest Rock and Roll Band” and for many folks they very might well be.  One cannot argue about their long term success over a nearly 50 year career.  For me, I’ve long joked with my friends that I wouldn’t go see them if they were appearing in my basement for free and I had nothing else to do.  Again, this is hyperbole because I would go see them ‘cause I feel Charlie Watts is another drummer who is an absolutely perfect fit in his band.

post #10 of 176

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

Neil Peart and Bonham are among the best "rock" drummers. There's no disputing that. There might be better out there that never became as popular, but those two are definitely not overrated.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed completely here!

post #11 of 176
Thread Starter 

I partially agree in a sense. Many "rock" drummers are certainly fantastic in their own context. Heck, I'd say some are just great period, irrespective of genre. My main reason for calling Peart or Bonham and those similar to them "overrated" is because all too often I've seen them come in at the very top of "greatest drummer" lists, and/or they are the only ones on the list at all which IMO is kind of ridiculous. If we're talking greatest drummers of anything anywhere, there is much much better out there. Should probably keep in mind though that of course nobody can have heard every single drummer and percussionist out there. Even if one were to make such a list and confine it only to "rock" drummers, I wouldn't put Peart anywhere near the top, haha tongue_smile.gif, but Bonham is a fair choice.

post #12 of 176

I think some of this gets into technical proficiency versus musicality and phrasing.  Peart has some of the best proficiency and technicality in Rock and he's more than musical enough for me.  Bonham had some of the most capable and effortless hands of any drummer I've ever seen.  Supposedly from his years of laying bricks.  A prime of example of technicality over musicality is Mike Mangini.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mangini+world+record&oq=mangini+world+record&aq=f&aqi=g1g-m1&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=youtube.3..0j0i5.185615.190105.0.190216.20.20.0.0.0.0.136.2048.11j9.20.0.

 

I believe he has more drummer related world records than anyone else but seeing him debut w/ Dream theater was disappointing to say the least.  Talk about boring and sterile.  I'll take Mike Portnoy or James 'The Rev' Sullivan (now deceased) anyday.  

 

As for Jazz drummers, yeah...you can't just wake up one day and decide to start rolling double kick drums.  Even Mangini said he is still having issues w/ his speed on double kicks.

 

It obviously seems inherently flawed to compare the phrasing of Jazz, Rock and Metal.  Jazz obviously has the fewest inherent structural constraints.  In Jazz, the world is your oyster.  For Rock and Metal, deviate too much and it's not an oyster anymore. 


Edited by Anaxilus - 4/18/12 at 8:44pm
post #13 of 176

Bonham is great, but so were Keith Moon and Ian Paice (Deep Purple, just listen to Burn).

post #14 of 176
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

Bonham is great, but so were Keith Moon and Ian Paice (Deep Purple, just listen to Burn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

I think some of this gets into technical proficiency versus musicality and phrasing.  Peart has some of the best proficiency and technicality in Rock and he's more than musical enough for me.

 

As for Jazz drummers, yeah...you can't just wake up one day and decide to start rolling double kick drums.  Even Mangini said he is still having issues w/ his speed on double kicks.

 

It obviously seems inherently flawed to compare the phrasing of Jazz, Rock and Metal.  Jazz obviously has the fewest inherent structural constraints.  In Jazz, the world is your oyster.  For Rock and Metal, deviate too much and it's not an oyster anymore. 

 

 

Eh, the one thing I'll give Peart is that he has precision/accuracy down pretty good, but then again, a lot of the time he's only playing pretty simple or regimented rhythms. I know there's a lot of people that that appeals to. Personally, I feel more like I'm listening to a metronome than music. Same reason I've never been impressed by double bass drum or super fast rolls. Anyone can do that through rote muscle memory. Not anyone can weave a rhythmic tale that inspires the imagination or tugs at the heartstrings, bearing in mind that other peoples' imaginations probably react to different stimuli than mine.

 

I don't know...the "usual suspects" might seem kind of impressive until you get to guys like Benny Greb.

 

As for the jazz vs rock thing, the way I see it the "oyster" is whatever you want it to be. tongue.gif One band I've heard that I think takes rock and starts turning it into something more is The Number Twelve Looks Like You, with Jon Karel on the drums.


Edited by manveru - 4/19/12 at 2:26am
post #15 of 176

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveru View Post

 

I still think you are taking a biased view of apples versus oranges.  This is just a case of 'I like the HD650 more than the HD800 so it's a better headphone' syndrome.  I also don't see how technical precision and speed is just a trick for trained monkeys and musical phrasing is some mysterious supernatural talent that can't be learned.  That's a rather silly characterization.  Maybe changing the thread title to 'Worlds Best Drummers' would do better to reframe your argument and introduce a different perspective. 

 

I see Benny Greb toured w/ Bobby McFerrin.  That must have been exhausting. rolleyes.gifwink_face.gif I wonder how long he'd last doing sessions w/ Dream Theater.  Not that I'm their biggest fan but I know how technical and hard they work.  


Edited by Anaxilus - 4/19/12 at 3:10am
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