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Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 16

post #226 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

In terms of people questioning Sennheiser's expertise at making headphone amps, even ignoring the HEV90, it's an odd sentiment.

Sennheiser is a major corporation who have been making headphones and microphones for professional and consumer markets for a long time. Any expertise they don't already have in house they have the resources to hire. Some of the companies people have glowingly quoted as being the true experts at headphone amp design are very small companies with self taught DIYer at the helm.

Some of those companies make great amps, some make questionable products that have gained favour in a small online community through customer reviews and group think. Not going to say which I think are which, as I'm not even trying to denigrate anyone, but lets just be realistic here. 

If Sennheiser want to make a headphone amp, they are going to use credentialed electrical engineers with experience of working for other renowned corporations on similar products. They are going to have all the tools to test and measure and perfect the product they are making. Sennheiser is not a guy sketching out a DIY amp idea in his garage, working by trial and error and judging success by ear. 

"Odd sentiment" = different opinion than yours?

It is reasonable to arrive at differing conclusions based on our alternate knowledge or professional experience. Your sentiment is no more "odd" than mine. It is just different.

I have been involved in engineering and product development for large companies for close to 30 years now. Rightly or wrongly, it tends to color my perspectives. I still await the simplicity and success of the staffing a team, integration of new development, resulting in a smooth initial launch of a generation 1 product that you outlined in your post. These tend to happen in the pages of a McKinnsey or BCG PowerPoint strategy decks more often than the reality of R&D and Engineering in corporations.

I also would not confuse a companies size with expertise, experience or design quality. Size can attract talent, but more often provides capital which enables manufacturing approaches and economies of scale. A product developed for Sennheiser will have many commercial requirements that those made by smaller independent companies will not have (suppliers, cost of goods, liability etc.). These requirements can be at odds with performance.

That being said; I hope that they introduce an excellent product and I wish them every success.

:-)
post #227 of 2505

The point I am making is that Sennheiser is not a person who needs to learn a trade, but a company who can hire the personnel it needs. Am I saying a big corporation can only make a good product? No. The proof will be in the pudding whether this is any good or not. I am just saying it is not rational to talk about them as though their "experience" is inherent.

 

If "Dave" says he's going to build his first dynamic headphone amp. I wish him good luck and believe that with practice and dedication, he can eventually build something great. Or maybe he'll be a natural and make a great amp first try. Maybe he just won't have the dedication and will give up. That's human beings. 

 

If a company says they are going to build their first dynamic headphone amp, if they are well managed their first step is going to be to gather a team of highly qualified experts to take on the challenge.

 

A corporation is not a human being, they don't need to learn. If they are well managed and have the funds to invest in R&D, there is no reason they cannot create a great product even if they've never tried before.

post #228 of 2505
"If they are well managed and have the funds to invest in R&D, there is no reason they cannot create a great product even if they've never tried before."

We simply disagree.
post #229 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post

"If they are well managed and have the funds to invest in R&D, there is no reason they cannot create a great product even if they've never tried before."
We simply disagree.

 

OK, so if they hired [insert whoever your favourite headphone amp maker is here] to design their first dynamic headphone amp, you believe that there is still very little chance that it could be good because the company itself has never put out a dynamic headphone amp?


Edited by EddieE - 10/17/12 at 3:51pm
post #230 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

OK, so if they hired [insert whoever your favourite headphone amp maker is here] to design their first dynamic headphone amp, you believe that there is still very little chance that it could be good because the company itself has never put out a dynamic headphone amp?

In short...no

No worries. I hope that you are correct.

:-)
post #231 of 2505
Having an in house amp to pair with its owned hp does not always means the best match for someone's ear. It may be the best match for the designer preference.
Look at Grado RA1, not many or very less people recommend it more for Grados than other independent amp manufacturer like Zana Deux or Maple Tree amps.
Just as HD800 were thought to be the best by Senn, but not by all.
Similarly, the combination will be thought best by the designer but again, not necessary by all HD800 owner.
post #232 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrietywarrior View Post

I wonder how the Audeze LCD3 would perform with the HDVD800.

Hard to say, I haven't seen any specs like output power and output impedance?

post #233 of 2505

seriously, iim7V7IM7, HEV90 was their first attempt at amps ( along with HEV70 ) , its the BEST Design for HE90. 

 

How can you say they cant make amps when their first attempt is still the best design for the intended Headphone even after 15 years!!! your so called experts have not come with any thing better for the HE90.

post #234 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by singh View Post

your so called experts have not come with any thing better for the HE90.
Aristaeus
post #235 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn View Post

Aristaeus
Based on HEV90.
post #236 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by singh View Post

seriously, iim7V7IM7, HEV90 was their first attempt at amps ( along with HEV70 ) , its the BEST Design for HE90. 

How can you say they cant make amps when their first attempt is still the best design for the intended Headphone even after 15 years!!! your so called experts have not come with any thing better for the HE90.

1) it is not a given that the HE90 was the "best" amplifier as you state.
2) Designing a large tube amp that you make a few hundred of is not remotely like designing a compact solid state amp/DAC that you make 10,000 a year
3) Having a >$10,000 retail target is different than a <$2,000 retail target
4) the new product contains a DAC which is a separate type of technology
5) 30 years of developing and launching products and experiencing gen1 launch issues

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with me. My opinions are colored by my experiences. I think it will be interesting to see how the Sennheiser products computer against one-box offerings by Benchmark, Burson, Grace etc at the $2,000 mark. I personally do not think the product will compete with discrete high-end units ( e.g. A high-end DAC with a High-end amp), there are too many cost/benefit trade-offs in a single unit design with cost of good constraints IMO.
post #237 of 2505

1. HEV90's design ( HEV90 and Aristaeus ), is the best for HE90 headphones repeatedly quoted by many owners and listeners. I repeat, best for HE90. not the best electrostatic amp. just the best match for HE90.

 

2. 10000 units a year ? this is hi-fi headphones ( and accessories) we are talking about, right ? double check your numbers.

 

3. having $10000 ( which sells 300 units ) is same as having $2000 retail ( which sells 1500 or more units ), its simple math.  infact its even better in latter, as its intended to sell even more.

 

4. Agreed, but most people( including me )  were just want the amp. (But , FYI, HEV90 also contained a DAC, it had optical and coaxial input along with analog)

 

5. As said before , Sennheiser is not new to electronics. they have been designing recording equipments.


Edited by singh - 10/18/12 at 3:33am
post #238 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by singh View Post

1. HEV90's design ( HEV90 and Aristaeus ), is the best for HE90 headphones repeatedly quoted by many owners and listeners. I repeat, best for HE90. not the best electrostatic amp. just the best match for HE90.

 

2. 10000 units a year ? this is hi-fi headphones ( and accessories) we are talking about, right ? double check your numbers.

 

3. having $10000 ( which sells 300 units ) is same as having $2000 retail ( which sells 1500 or more units ), its simple math.  infact its even better in latter, as its intended to sell even more.

 

4. Agreed, but most people( including me )  were just want the amp. (But , FYI, HEV90 also contained a DAC, it had optical and coaxial input along with analog)

 

5. As said before , Sennheiser is not new to electronics. they have been designing recording equipments.

Enjoy your new amp...

post #239 of 2505

I think its almost certain that Sennheiser will have employed an external consultant or two to either design or design aspects of this amplifier.  This is not at all unusual and many of even the largest organisations do it these days.  You will find there is a small "army" of well qualified, and in some cases well known people, who provide this level of consulting expertise where organisation either dont have or cant justify maintaining that particular skill or expertise in house.

 

There is nothing new about this and has been normal practice in many fields including audio design and engineering for many, many years. I have worked as a consultant providing skills and expertise to many organisations both large and small for a couple of decades now, but not in the field of audio design.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post


1) it is not a given that the HE90 was the "best" amplifier as you state.
2) Designing a large tube amp that you make a few hundred of is not remotely like designing a compact solid state amp/DAC that you make 10,000 a year
3) Having a >$10,000 retail target is different than a <$2,000 retail target
4) the new product contains a DAC which is a separate type of technology
5) 30 years of developing and launching products and experiencing gen1 launch issues
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with me. My opinions are colored by my experiences. I think it will be interesting to see how the Sennheiser products computer against one-box offerings by Benchmark, Burson, Grace etc at the $2,000 mark. I personally do not think the product will compete with discrete high-end units ( e.g. A high-end DAC with a High-end amp), there are too many cost/benefit trade-offs in a single unit design with cost of good constraints IMO.
post #240 of 2505
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

I think its almost certain that Sennheiser will have employed an external consultant or two to either design or design aspects of this amplifier.  This is not at all unusual and many of even the largest organisations do it these days.  You will find there is a small "army" of well qualified, and in some cases well known people, who provide this level of consulting expertise where organisation either dont have or cant justify maintaining that particular skill or expertise in house.

 

There is nothing new about this and has been normal practice in many fields including audio design and engineering for many, many years. I have worked as a consultant providing skills and expertise to many organisations both large and small for a couple of decades now, but not in the field of audio design.  

 


You know - it would make perfect sense for Sennheiser to hire lake people (violectric) for this job.

 

Of course it would all be very hush hush but remember that Violectric was supposed to launch the balanced 281 quite some time ago - then it all got very quiet. Maybe they got busy with other things?

 

If it turns out violectric is behind this Sennheiser amp it will most certainly be good!


All unfounded speculation of course.

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