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Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 150

post #2236 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Oh yeah?  How do you think it benefits from the Marantz?  K701 and HD800 had very similar results based on Tyll's measurements.  

Tyll uses one amp for his measurements. It would be nice to have one amp to drive everything with perfect results, but such an amp does not exist at this time.

Also Tyll has said it himself numerous times (latest in his Beats review) that measurements can be misleading. That said K701 and HD800 measure very differently if looked past fr response, where they are mildly similar.

And about K701 vs HD800 for n-th time sound wise they have as much in common as a baboon and homo sapiens sapiens. The K701 is the baboon for clarification. 

I'm not trying to say i hate baboons.

 

The K701 with Marantz amp from its speaker taps has authority which it lacks completely from various hp amplifiers i have tried. This is not something one needs to abx to confirm, its obvious.

I quess its got enough current swing (peak) that regular hp amps lack, or whatever, i haven't got the time to investigate this. Although what i hear is more exciting sound, with fast hard hitting bass, but its still the same headphone with its plastic midrange and useless headroom with no imaging capability, not to mention the utter lack of microdetails (for me most 100$ iems do better in this). 


Edited by Priidik - 8/16/14 at 2:52pm
post #2237 of 2415
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying measurements are end of all, but they provide info, and I have noticed that the two phones resemble each other in regards to measurements, and subjectively it's another story as you have stated.  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priidik View Post
 

Tyll uses one amp for his measurements. It would be nice to have one amp to drive everything with perfect results, but such an amp does not exist at this time.

Also Tyll has said it himself numerous times (latest in his Beats review) that measurements can be misleading. 

 

Yeah, but at the same time he's backing up his review by referring to the measurements.  I understand his intentions to try to give the Beats brand a fair chance though.

 

Tyll Hertsens's picture
You know, I would get my
Submitted by Tyll Hertsens on August 16, 2014 - 7:03am
You know, I would get my hearing tested again after finding the Solo2 to sound good except for one thing...the measurements. Measurements don't lie...they don't tell the whole truth, and things must be listened to to know what they sound like, but the measurements are not biased and do tell a significant part of the story. And the story those measurements tell is that these cans are competent performers.

"All of your reviews to this point have been top notch and thorough. This one, however is totally inaccurate."

Thank you for the complement, but why do you think my methods and results would be so erroneous in this case?

I suspect your experience with the Beats at the store is heavenly subject to expectation bias. I suggest you go have another listen with an open mind.


Edited by SilverEars - 8/16/14 at 5:15pm
post #2238 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post


That is mostly true. If the impedance is low but very flat, the frequency response wil not be affected much. My AKG K550 sound good out of the HDVD800.

But you are right when it comes to damping factor.

Speaker amps can power any headphone, but the gain means noise is an issue, and the subties of crossover distortion on optimally biased class B amp mean that generally they don't sound great. This is if the speaker outputs are connected. If the headphone output is on an integrated amplifier, the signal is usually attenuated by a 330 ohm power resistor. Nasty in every way.
post #2239 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagwap View Post


That is mostly true. If the impedance is low but very flat, the frequency response wil not be affected much. My AKG K550 sound good out of the HDVD800.

But you are right when it comes to damping factor.

Speaker amps can power any headphone, but the gain means noise is an issue, and the subties of crossover distortion on optimally biased class B amp mean that generally they don't sound great. This is if the speaker outputs are connected. If the headphone output is on an integrated amplifier, the signal is usually attenuated by a 330 ohm power resistor. Nasty in every way.

Good point. The list I put out earlier included gain that the headphones require.  What would be the typical gain of the speaker amps?  So basically, the gain is still the same as the gain used to power the speakers, and only attenuated with a resistor network for headphone out.  Definitely will suffer noise issues because of the gain.  This all depends on how much gain the headphone require.  HE-6 require lots of gain, so probably not an issue.  The HE-6 needs gain of 15, and 800 needs unity.  Significant difference.


Edited by SilverEars - 8/16/14 at 11:29pm
post #2240 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Good point. The list I put out earlier included gain that the headphones require.  What would be the typical gain of the speaker amps?  So basically, the gain is still the same as the gain used to power the speakers, and only attenuated with a resistor network for headphone out.  Definitely will suffer noise issues because of the gain.  This all depends on how much gain the headphone require.  HE-6 require lots of gain, so probably not an issue.  The HE-6 needs gain of 15, and 800 needs unity.  Significant difference.

The power amplifier gain would typically be between 24 and 50 (27.6 - 34dB).  The resistor could attenuate the noise, but replace it with poor damping factor and heavily affected frequency response. It wouldn't surprise me if older headphones were tuned to work well with a 330R output impedance, as that is what they saw a lot of the time.  Better designs added a 47R to ground giving a 41R output impedance, but still poor for most headphones.

 

The gain you talk about for headphones depends on the input signal.  If we assume 2V rms for a DAC line out, then the gain to achieve a required level can be worked out.

 

The Sennhieser HDVD has plenty of gain for the HE-6 I suspect. But the output impedance could be an issue.

post #2241 of 2415

I just bought an HDVD 800 to complement my HD 800 and I'm very much enjoying the combo so far, 20 min in and already posting to Head-fi about it :)

 

And I have some questions... 


I didn't realise the HDVD 800 came without a power cable nor a USB cable, so I'm using what I have available which is currently a standard appliance e.g. computer power lead and an old USB cable that I used to use to connect to my old printer (the cable's probably 10 years old). I'm experienced with amps, dacs, headphones and headphone cables, but not yet so with how USB cables and power cables affect sound quality. Has anyone here found a notable increase in sound quality of the HD 800 / HD 800 by means of upgrading the power cable and USB cable above standard such computer cables?

Additionally, when I listen closely I can hear the treble and overall clarity of my rig clear though somewhat muffled, which could be due to the DAC or the cables (my files are mainly ALAC format btw) - what do you guys think?

Previous questions aside, I'm so far regularly experiencing goosebumps listening to this rig!

:) 


Edited by Windsor - 8/22/14 at 6:14pm
post #2242 of 2415

I upgraded my usb and power cable from standard ones to Supra cables. The usb cable makes the sound more full and alive and the power cable had more subtle improvements but definately improved the bass. I didn't compare the power cord as much as i did with the usb.

post #2243 of 2415

That's weird, my HDVA600 comes with power and usb cable..

post #2244 of 2415
Fancy power cords and USB cables will make zero difference to sound quality.
post #2245 of 2415

It does make a difference. It's as clear as day with my rig. I've switched and compared my cables 100+ times over several days when buying them, and then again months after just to be sure that i prefered the Supra cables, and that it had a real impact on the sound. It's very obvious how the sound changes, especially when switching the usb. To say that it makes no difference you would have to be completely deaf.


Edited by EvenR - 8/23/14 at 5:40am
post #2246 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvenR View Post

It does make a difference. It's as clear as day with my rig. I've switched and compared my cables 100+ times over several days when buying them, and then again months after just to be sure that i prefered the Supra cables, and that it had a real impact on the sound. It's very obvious how the sound changes, especially when switching the usb. To say that it makes no difference you would have to be completely deaf.

Did you do these comparisons Double blind? Did you pass the double blind with at least 90% accuracy? I'm sure sighted you think you hear a difference. We are all susceptible to expectation bias.
post #2247 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

That's weird, my HDVA600 comes with power and usb cable..

And with firmware CD too.

post #2248 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priidik View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

That's weird, my HDVA600 comes with power and usb cable..

And with firmware CD too.

 

I don't get any firmware CD, maybe only the HDVD800 comes with a firmware CD.

post #2249 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

 

I don't get any firmware CD, maybe only the HDVD800 comes with a firmware CD.

Of course you didn't. You also shouldn't have got any usb cable, because there is no hole to plug it into HDVA600. 

 

It seems EU customers are all ripped off by a power cord though.

post #2250 of 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priidik View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

 

I don't get any firmware CD, maybe only the HDVD800 comes with a firmware CD.

Of course you didn't. You also shouldn't have got any usb cable, because there is no hole to plug it into HDVA600. 

 

It seems EU customers are all ripped off by a power cord though.

 

lol my bad, I got my usb cable from my Benchmark DAC1-USB. I bought it only a week apart, so I got things a bit mixed up. But I did got a power cable from both.

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