or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 135

post #2011 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

Did you read the article? Some well put together blind tests comparing probably the best dac in the world with cheaper dacs . They all sounded the same . But if you want to believe expensive dacs sound better that's up to you.

Yeah, but you believe all DACS sound the same and you also believe that solid state amps do the same. Which of course is not credible and it seems to me you have never had the chance to listen to a good system.

 

You seem to believe that we have already reached some magical transparent level of audio and that your HDVD 800 is as good as it going to get. You are of course deluded and completely wrong, I am afraid.


Edited by Speedy Pedro - 3/9/14 at 6:59pm
post #2012 of 2865

I really wish I can hear all the stuff, but too said, there is not enough place for people to hear high end audio with highly isolated listening rooms.

 

I never said anything you said was wrong, just that it is not as what I have experienced for now. I think my ear is still under training and I am pretty sure I cannot spot as much details as you do.

 

I use to think HD650 is very detailed and balanced. Then after I have my HD800 for years, I can easily pick on things that is been distorted or rolled off, and I never went back to HD650's sound. I also leaned the difference between balanced and single ended amp buy have long enough time with my HDVD800 system. I think as long as you been expose to a good sound system for enough time, your feeling automatically tells you what went different compare to your reference system.

 

Hence, I will try to find a place to audition your thing before I draw any conclusion here. However, I highly doubt I can spot the difference as dramatic as you described.

post #2013 of 2865
D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Pedro View Post

Yeah, but you believe all DACS sound the same and you also believe that solid state amps do the same. Which of course is not credible and it seems to me you have never had the chance to listen to a good system.

You seem to believe that we have already reached some magical transparent level of audio and that your HDVD 800 is as good as it going to get. You are of course deluded and completely wrong, I am afraid.
The difference between you and I is that I bring evidence based material to the table , you bring your opinion. And you think I'm deluded?!
post #2014 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

D
The difference between you and I is that I bring evidence based material to the table , you bring your opinion. And you think I'm deluded?!

 

James, I suppose it's theoretically possible that all DACs sound the same. In my experience they don't (although that may be due to the analogue interface), but to say that all SS amps sound the same is clearly nonsense. I feel that you're falling into the trap that although one part of your argument may be perfectly good, you invalidate the good part by saying something which is clearly not true.

 

Thanks for pointing us to the Philips Golden Ears Challenge though. That was fun!

post #2015 of 2865
Had an interesting opportunity to listen to the HDVD800 and HDVA600 feeding a HD800 with the Sennheiser balanced cable, fed by a Marantz SACD player, but just playing normal CDs. Optical out from the player to the HDVD and simple single ended analog cables to the HDVA.

What can I say, music out of both sounded great, but the HDVA600 sounded just that tiny bit better. But honestly, if I were to buy one of these, I'd get the HDVD800. Because if I'm going to all that trouble to get a better source, I might as well get a better amp. But I love the size and form factor of the units and can see it being an elegant audio solution that gives up important, but marginal, audio performance over an "ultimate" rig.

Just my 0.02.

-Jason
post #2016 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcha View Post

Had an interesting opportunity to listen to the HDVD800 and HDVA600 feeding a HD800 with the Sennheiser balanced cable, fed by a Marantz SACD player, but just playing normal CDs. Optical out from the player to the HDVD and simple single ended analog cables to the HDVA.

What can I say, music out of both sounded great, but the HDVA600 sounded just that tiny bit better. But honestly, if I were to buy one of these, I'd get the HDVD800. Because if I'm going to all that trouble to get a better source, I might as well get a better amp. But I love the size and form factor of the units and can see it being an elegant audio solution that gives up important, but marginal, audio performance over an "ultimate" rig.

Just my 0.02.

-Jason

 

But the amp section in the HDVA600 and the HDVD800 is exactly the same!?

post #2017 of 2865
I think they are too.

Al
post #2018 of 2865
Correct. What I'm saying is that I'd go with a different source and amp. One that is not constrained by fitting into one sleek casing like these.
post #2019 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post

James, I suppose it's theoretically possible that all DACs sound the same. In my experience they don't (although that may be due to the analogue interface), but to say that all SS amps sound the same is clearly nonsense. I feel that you're falling into the trap that although one part of your argument may be perfectly good, you invalidate the good part by saying something which is clearly not true.

Thanks for pointing us to the Philips Golden Ears Challenge though. That was fun!

I've never said ALL amos and dacs sound the same. I've always said amps and dacs that are made with the goal of transparency sound the same. That is easily achievable now and if an amp it dac sound different it's because they are so bad they messed up or it has been intentionally designed with a different sound, ie a high frequency filter that rolls the highs off . Modern dac chips come with options to taylor the sound but the only ones I'm interested in are the ones that have flat FR within 0.1 db 20-20 kHz , low distortion , enough power and low noise. If all this criteria is met ( which is easily done even at a budget) they should and will sound the same. Lots of hard evidence had been published that shows this but none so far that shows otherwise. So until I read otherwise I know where I stand on this debate. I also know what my ears tell me but I also am not naive enough to trust them. Therefore I try not to use my own experience to back my points up because it means nothing to anyone .
post #2020 of 2865
Back on topic. I discovered at the weekend that when using optical from my ps4 to the hdvd800 the sound was dropping in and out. This hasn't happened before and I've always used the same optical cable (2 meter) I seem to remember reading that longer optical cables can cause this. Anyway I had a half meter one lying around so I plugged that in and problem solved. Anyone else had this problem with longer optical cables?
post #2021 of 2865

PS4 is the last thing you want to send your optical signal from. The cost of the whole unit is less than some quality spif converters on the market, so I do not think they throw anything be rated "hifi" there. I am pretty sure as long as 44.1K 16bit audio pass the test, they never pursued any further. I am using 3 meter long cable for my cd player to the HDVD800. Not any issues yet to be found.

post #2022 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

D
The difference between you and I is that I bring evidence based material to the table , you bring your opinion. And you think I'm deluded?!

Yep I do.

 

What I see is you stating things like earlier in the thread when you said the Auralic Taurus sounds the same as Sennheiser HDVA 600 without even listening to it. Which completely shoots your credibility.

 

Go and listen to different DACs and solid state amps and you will notice the differences. They can be huge.

 

I have in my house many DACs and solid state amps and they all sound different.

 

Your quote "I also know what my ears tell me but I also am not naive enough to trust them" probably hints at part of the problem. You hear differences but you don't want to acknowledge them because it does not fit with your pre-conceived (and mistaken) opinion.

 

I am not sure what you define as a "transparent" DAC and solid state amp. But if you think that the HDVA 600/ HDVD 800 are it and that they represent the pinnacle of possible audio achievement, then you need to listen further. You really do, James. Going to audio shows, friendly dealers, head-fi meet-ups (there is good one in London organised by GSARider) are all good ways to do that.

 

On the other hand, your wallet is probably happy that you think you have discovered the most transparent possible DAC and head amp and it probably hopes you keep that blinkered view!

 

Pedro

post #2023 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHell View Post

PS4 is the last thing you want to send your optical signal from. The cost of the whole unit is less than some quality spif converters on the market, so I do not think they throw anything be rated "hifi" there. I am pretty sure as long as 44.1K 16bit audio pass the test, they never pursued any further. I am using 3 meter long cable for my cd player to the HDVD800. Not any issues yet to be found.

Thanks for reply. I didn't think it would be an issue seeing as all the ps4 had to do is send out the 1s and0s and let the hdvd800 dac do the timing/ converting etc. the ps4 is just like a laptop with digital information stored on it, the hdvd800 should be dealing with the conversions etc. that's the point of an external dac, it's independent of the source.
post #2024 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post


I've never said ALL amos and dacs sound the same. I've always said amps and dacs that are made with the goal of transparency sound the same. That is easily achievable now and if an amp it dac sound different it's because they are so bad they messed up or it has been intentionally designed with a different sound, ie a high frequency filter that rolls the highs off . Modern dac chips come with options to taylor the sound but the only ones I'm interested in are the ones that have flat FR within 0.1 db 20-20 kHz , low distortion , enough power and low noise. If all this criteria is met ( which is easily done even at a budget) they should and will sound the same. Lots of hard evidence had been published that shows this but none so far that shows otherwise. So until I read otherwise I know where I stand on this debate. I also know what my ears tell me but I also am not naive enough to trust them. Therefore I try not to use my own experience to back my points up because it means nothing to anyone .


If you do not hear the difference, that is fine as long as you are happy.

But calling design a "flat" FR amp easy is an insult to those who spend their life time researching such topics.

Maybe you mean designing a amp that amplifier a signal over a constant resistance is easy, but put an dynamic load on it is another story. Basically, the easier way to design an amp is to design it is with the headphone. However, this means a amp makes Grado sound "flat" will make HD800 sounds like crap for sure.

 

Making an amp sounds universally flat for majority of "reference" headphones is virtually impossible. That is why in headfi community, we are constantly trying to find the system that have the "perfect" synergy with our headphones and music tastes.

 

If you think your budget amp sound as good as some 4 figure "over priced" amp, you are entitled with your opinion. However, please do not just use the number on the back of your amp's box as an reference unless you know how the tests are conducted. As for most of time, there are just marketing BS that carries no significant value in real life. Even with very controlled tests, only a fraction of the "true sound" is revealed.

 

Most of times I heard people said that they only trust their ears, and I believe it is the most efficient way to evaluate the sound. If you are not headfi people that is aiming for the absolute best sound, you can stop here and call it a day. I think most of the people in the world does not have such high demand on the sound anyway. If you do have such need, please train yourself to have the ears and knowledge to make a judgement about an equipment. If you have a nice friend, like me( that willing to let out an DAC1 and RPX35 to my friend who believed the same thing as you do and then end up with a urge to upgrade his old system.) you can simply sit with a system that you think is clearly "overpriced" and "worthless" for half a year. Then switch back to your old system and tell me that you can not hear any difference.

 

If that is the case, I will make my apology to you here to you in public.

 

P.S.

I think I have too much time in my work...... All my post is getting longer and longer.........

post #2025 of 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

Thanks for reply. I didn't think it would be an issue seeing as all the ps4 had to do is send out the 1s and0s and let the hdvd800 dac do the timing/ converting etc. the ps4 is just like a laptop with digital information stored on it, the hdvd800 should be dealing with the conversions etc. that's the point of an external dac, it's independent of the source.

I'm pretty cynical on the differences people go on and on about here sometimes. The differences in electronics are almost always marginal. But marginal differences are the difference between something that is very good versus magical.

You should enjoy the set-up that you have, you are getting extraordinary music out of it. But your statement on DACs being independent of transport is not entirely correct.

Seems like you're happy with what you've got, and not aware of what you could have. That's a very good place to be. One does not always need to find audio nirvana when one can have audio amazingness in a sweet sleek package.

But the HD800 can do magic with other gear that the HDVD800 can't offer.

I'd be happy with that set up though. One does not always need to seek magic.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier