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Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 120

post #1786 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHell View Post
 

I am stating it in the form of how they been calculated:

 

if you make velocity (v) = voltage (V or e); force (f) = current (i)

then, you can get

  mass(M) equation:                f = M dv/dt   (you can treat dv/dt as acceleration since it is velocity over time)

  capacitance(C) equation:      i = C dV/dt  (same thing)

  damping (B) equation:           f= B v

  conductance(G) equation:     i = G V

 

you can see, from a mathematical view, there is no difference between mass and capacitance, and damping to conductance.

So, if you draw the mechanical diagram of a very complex mechanical system, and transform them into a electrical circuit, you can actually solve them very easily using KVL and KCL~~~~~

 

Believe me, the first time I saw it, I have been below away like this is some sort of magic~~~~

To me this is a stretch. You can never convince me that Current can be equated to Force in order to make the math look good. To me this is a fundamental flaw as Current is related to quantity not force. There are other assumptions here that are to me a bit flaky. I'm not in favor of twisting one thing to make another possible. I never had trouble understanding other basic parts of Physics such that I needed to have other analogies to help me along, especially with such odd assumptions. Hey if this was part of a course and my grade depended on it, I might give in to the dark side of the force:D 

post #1787 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

I've posted the above video because I personally like the HDVD800 (and own it) but I don't think it's any better or worse than any other decent amp. They all sound the same unless designed to sound coloured. Same for dacs/ cables etc. I have my own reasons for buying the senn amp but I got it knowing these facts. I do think the 43 ohm output on the HDVD800 adds a very slight but of warmth in the mid bass but I've not blind tested myself against another transparent amp so it's probably placebo.

I didn't watch the video, as I've been occupied shoveling snow , only 15 cm. I'm with you on the rest of this. Be careful of battling with the Cable Faithful, they easily fall into a frenzy when someone challenges their belief system. :eek:

post #1788 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Pedro View Post
 

 

 

Thomas -> I don't think there are any London dealers which carry both Auralic and Sennheiser. It was a special favour that the Sennheiser dealer had the amp shipped from the Auralic UK distributor. I can only surmise that he must have kept it around for a few days and perhaps it was then that you listened to it.

 

And you bought instead the HDVA 600 instead of the Auralic? All I can say to you is "Wow!". Perhaps with your Beyer the Sennheisser sounds best and I am happy for you. But with the HD 800 my experience was vastly different from yours. The Sennheiser was not even in the same category as the Auralic. And it was not only because the Auralic was noticeably more powerful than the HDVA 600.

 

Hi Pedro, well this dealer does, and I don't see why I should lie to you, if you want I can send you a pm with the address so you can book a listening session. I bought the hdva for several reasons: 1) price: I asked for a "black friday" offer and the seller kindly reduced it to meet my budget 2) size: the hdva is smaller and I mostly use it at work on my desk, but I've got limited space and for security reasons, I've got to lock it in my drawer every night 3) brand: I don't know how Auralic customer service is, but I tested Sennheiser's one and seemed pretty reliable to me, also I will move soon to the US so I wanted to be sure the warranty covered the amp everywhere (and the hdva 600 works also with both voltages).

As said, I agree with you, the hdvd 800 was connected directly to the nagra cd and it was way worst than the taurus, still I made a "leap of faith" and when I connected the amp to my dac (hrt ms hd), I was happy for my decision, otherwise I would have bought a new a1 in the us, once arrived.

post #1789 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomascrown View Post
 

 

Hi Pedro, well this dealer does, and I don't see why I should lie to you, i

 

I was not trying to imply that you were lying in any way. Was just mentioning the coincidence, and not in a sarcastic way.

 

Apologies for the confusion.

post #1790 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Giskard View Post
 

Still, for your Audez'e the Musical fidelity M1 HPA (now in it's second iteration - the M1 HPAP) and their own M1 DAC would work very well. The amplifier is clean-sounding, detailed and engaging. The matching DAC is the best for the money.

 

Cheers!

Antun

 

What does Musical Fidelity add to the 2nd edition of their Amp?

I have been mulling over to get this amp for a very long time.

post #1791 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by zackzack View Post
 

 

What does Musical Fidelity add to the 2nd edition of their Amp?

I have been mulling over to get this amp for a very long time.

They tell me the power supply has been improved. To what extent I am not sure. However, Musical fidelity regularly updates their electronics so the succeeding revisions of the same model number usually do sound better in one way or another.

 

The factory also offers upgrades for their customers and this includes their older products as well.

post #1792 of 2868

Someone mentioned HDVD800 cannot support 192kHz fs via it's Toslink input... What is the highest fs it supports?

 

Generally it is not too expensive to use a more resolving optical interface but still, I have notice that many many DACs support up to 96kHz and even then you can run into all sorts of problems with intermittent transmission if the cable is longer than 2m or if it's not a glass-fiberoptics but a plastic one. Sometimes the input receiver won't even lock onto the stram. I must say though that generally pro-grade electronics do perform more reliably but it is not a rule.

post #1793 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Giskard View Post
 

Someone mentioned HDVD800 cannot support 192kHz fs via it's Toslink input... What is the highest fs it supports?

 

Generally it is not too expensive to use a more resolving optical interface but still, I have notice that many many DACs support up to 96kHz and even then you can run into all sorts of problems with intermittent transmission if the cable is longer than 2m or if it's not a glass-fiberoptics but a plastic one. Sometimes the input receiver won't even lock onto the stram. I must say though that generally pro-grade electronics do perform more reliably but it is not a rule.


I believe the manual said 88K, but I test my 96/24 FLAC on it, it seems to work. And no, it does not support 192K for sure.

 

Normally, I would expect that USB will be the digital interface that is causing the problem. All my other DACs have much higher sampling frequency over coaxial and optical interfaces. For optical cables, I never have issues with my 5m cables. But you should not bend the optical cable too much which exciting the maximum radius its allowed. otherwise,  you should be fine.

 

If you have any other balance dac, I advice you try it on the HDVD800 and you might like them more~~~~ Lets just say, the DAC on the device is not as good as it said on paper.

post #1794 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHell View Post
 


I believe the manual said 88K, but I test my 96/24 FLAC on it, it seems to work. And no, it does not support 192K for sure.

 

Normally, I would expect that USB will be the digital interface that is causing the problem. All my other DACs have much higher sampling frequency over coaxial and optical interfaces. For optical cables, I never have issues with my 5m cables. But you should not bend the optical cable too much which exciting the maximum radius its allowed. otherwise,  you should be fine.

 

If you have any other balance dac, I advice you try it on the HDVD800 and you might like them more~~~~ Lets just say, the DAC on the device is not as good as it said on paper.

Thanks Alan!

 

Oh, I know. The built-in DAC is decent but the extra premium is 400 Euro compared to the HDVA600 and for this much better DACs can be had.

 

Well, the optical cables aren't bent at all, the transmission is just not that reliable. I will have to see and exchange the Toslink converter for a higher quality one.

 

It is interesting what you say about the 96k working well and 192k not working at all. I suspect it might have to do with the optical diode / Toslink converter rather than anything else because the input receiver is the same for the coaxial input. It is just the matter of the optical input having a TOSLINK/SPDIF converter at it's end so the limitation has to do with the optical receiver. A 192k capable converter would cost perhaps 1 Euro so they could have used it, if nothing, then to be able to say that all inputs support 192k. But it is not just Sennheiser, other manufacturers like Audiolab, Musical fidelity, Arcam etc. do the same thing.

post #1795 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Giskard View Post
 

Thanks Alan!

 

Oh, I know. The built-in DAC is decent but the extra premium is 400 Euro compared to the HDVA600 and for this much better DACs can be had.

 

Well, the optical cables aren't bent at all, the transmission is just not that reliable. I will have to see and exchange the Toslink converter for a higher quality one.

 

It is interesting what you say about the 96k working well and 192k not working at all. I suspect it might have to do with the optical diode / Toslink converter rather than anything else because the input receiver is the same for the coaxial input. It is just the matter of the optical input having a TOSLINK/SPDIF converter at it's end so the limitation has to do with the optical receiver. A 192k capable converter would cost perhaps 1 Euro so they could have used it, if nothing, then to be able to say that all inputs support 192k. But it is not just Sennheiser, other manufacturers like Audiolab, Musical fidelity, Arcam etc. do the same thing.


I know, but I was hoping that they are smart  enough to make the converter work....

I mean, for most of the DAC that can only process 24/96, there is no need to put a higher speed digital converter on in. However, for something that does 24/192 natively, a 192/24 transfer rate support across all digital input is just common sense.

 

The coaxial also does not work with 24/192 since it uses the same thing.

 

It is understandable to have cheaper component inside the amp and DAC as long as the circuity is well designed. At least people will not see that right away, and the analog effect will be very subjective person to person. However, missing some fundamental features up front is not good at all.  If they does not care about the DAC at all, why not just release the HDVA600 and call it a day? They even out source the design to some third party company in China to save the development cost.

 

Lets just say, the people that design HD800 must hate the HDVD800 team now for ruin their names~~~~

post #1796 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHell View Post
 


I know, but I was hoping that they are smart  enough to make the converter work....

I mean, for most of the DAC that can only process 24/96, there is no need to put a higher speed digital converter on in. However, for something that does 24/192 natively, a 192/24 transfer rate support across all digital input is just common sense.

 

The coaxial also does not work with 24/192 since it uses the same thing.

 

It is understandable to have cheaper component inside the amp and DAC as long as the circuity is well designed. At least people will not see that right away, and the analog effect will be very subjective person to person. However, missing some fundamental features up front is not good at all.  If they does not care about the DAC at all, why not just release the HDVA600 and call it a day? They even out source the design to some third party company in China to save the development cost.

 

Lets just say, the people that design HD800 must hate the HDVD800 team now for ruin their names~~~~

No 24/192 support for the HDVD800? Well, that is plain odd.

 

I don't necessarily think it is paramount to have all the formats supported as long as inherent electronic design is rational and sane. If the product supports all the latest formats, then so much the better but it isn't an advantage without good design, I completely agree with you.

 

I myself am not a fan of integrated solutions because one component always seems to grwo older sooner than the other one. In the case of Orpheus for example, the amplifier is still relevant today. It's integrated D/A converter is not even though some serious modifications could be done. That would be blashemy however, to touch something that has already been designed to be the best in the world. But anyway, I still think HDVA600 is a better deal.

 

Cheers!

Antun

post #1797 of 2868

The only reason I got my HDVD800 is because some little faith in Sennheiser.

I think if you really want to do system synergy match for your headphone, make is as flat as possible across all audible dynamic range, you need to do it top to the end.

Just fixing the amp's output impedance matching only solves half of the problem. The DAC's input impedance match also defines a lot of details. As well as the EQing of the DAC will change the sound dramatically.

 

I was expecting them to use both end to tune the HD800 to the "peferfect" stage that it will be truly "FLAT". I guess I was too optimistic to think they can repeat the HE90 legend. Or I just have too high expectation on it~~~~ 

post #1798 of 2868

I think the hdvd800 sounds great paired with my V800 DAC.

post #1799 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeAspect View Post

I think the hdvd800 sounds great paired with my V800 DAC.

...and it also sounds great with my LCD-X.... I actually use the internal DAC for my digital iPod dock and 16/44 wav-files only. Therefore it is quite sufficient. The real high quality signals are coming in analog, and all I can say is hooray...
Edited by musikaladin - 1/10/14 at 11:12am
post #1800 of 2868
Hi all-

I would like to use the HDVD as a preamp in my 2 channel setup with amps and speakers.

Does the front panel volume control adjust output levels on the rear panel XLR outs?

Many thanks,
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