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Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 77

post #1141 of 2240

I think HDVD800 is more worth buying than HDVA600. The DAC section is HDVD800 is excellent and sure worth the price difference. Getting a seperate DAC with same performence of HDVD800's DAC,  cost at least 700 US dollar not including cables and not mention, it is a fully balanced layout

post #1142 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Giskard View Post

Fellas, everyone has a right to an opinion. I think the HDVA600 is a superb amplifier (and yes, I do own one even if I don't use possesive pronouns like "my" or "mine", that I leave to our American friends here), just not as good as it could have been. What we need are the reviews, be it positive or negative reviews. At 1600 Euro, it is a bit expensive and the HDVD800 is simply too much at 2000 Euro.

I will agree that it is difficult to make judgements based on short-term experience but there are those that can say quite a lot about something if they are professionally qualified in that regard. So one doesn't always have to, in this case, listen to something to be able to say something constructive. After all, if I am a bridge designer who has never walked across some bridge, I would still be able to say a lot more about that that bridge than someone who walked across it thousand times but knows nothing about bridge design. I am quite sure there are people like that on this forum so one doesn't need to insist on listening first and then commenting. It is ridiculous and completely unfounded.

As for the output impedance, I seriously doubt it is 43 Ohm. Nothing is known about this amplifier and the published specifications are vague at best. The noise that some have reported might be due to the fully balanced circuit design which, while a noble idea, often doesn't work like intended. The hassle is zero rejection to common noise which means the noise is only amplified once it enters the stage. The other, more serious problem, is component matching because, and let's not forget, fully balanced means twice as many components. Those components have to be symmetrically matched and this includes both passive and active components. Anything short of that would nullify the advantage of such a layout and in every other case, differential circuit is the better solution. There is a good reason why best tube amplifiers are never balanced and no serious DIYer / tube enthusiast would ever consider such a topology. One might be smart here and say that we're not talking about tubes here and that's correct, we are not. But tubes, because of their inherent disadvantages and originally intended application, serve as a good example why component matching is critical in a fully balanced design.

What I would be interested in seeing are measurements - real life measurements of the D/A converter stage on line outputs. I'd like to see measurements of the amplifier section as well - IMD numbers, linearity and crosstalk at 20kHz (I suspect it is 80 dB at best).

I have respect for Sennheiser and my experience is that they make things that work and continue to work for years. Even if they could have done a better job with the amplifier, I think it is a worthy addition to their portfolio and I am convinced that future versions (or even revisions) will be better.
post #1143 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlancoTheBull View Post

If everything goes as I hope, I will receive my HD + HDVD 800 next week (friday) or the week after that.

I can't wait, but I'm also a bit nervous :) (it isn't cheap). And it is a demo model, so alot cheaper than otherwise but still alot of money.

Does anybody have experience (good or bad) with demo models (not for demo use but actually buying it)?

I have about 2 weeks to deside and get 2 years guerantee.

 

I'm gonna thoroughly test it with games, movies and music.

Is a balanced cable worth the money? What kind of difference can you expact?

Thanks

 

Some of the best components that I've ever had in any of my systems over the years were demos. In most cases, I could not have ever afforded the new versions so the demos actually made it possible for me to have stuff I couldn't normally afford.

 

Another get item about the demos are that they are usually already broken in. Some items can take a long time to do this. With a demo, usually what you hear is what you will continue to hear.

 

One other item that is probably silly for some folks but significant to me, is that it there are small dings, scrapes, or other aesthetic issues, I tend not to worry quite so much about it confused_face.gif

 

The main issue, of course, is to determine whether or not it's been abused. Another is where "demos" are sold for nearly the same price as a new, in box item. If the original warranty is available, that is a positive as well.

 

In general demos can be a cost effective way to obtain items with warranty that you might not ordinarily be able to afford.

 

As far as balanced wiring goes, my personal experience with the HDVD800 and my T1 are that the T1 wired for balanced is a definite improvement. But changing out a phone plug for an XLR-4 balance connector is only $4 for the connector, but depending on the phone's wiring, you may have Litz wires in the cable and you'll need to deal with that (Litz wire can be very tricky to solder). Some places will do this for you for under $100 (or less if you've bought the component from them) but obviously buying a replaceable set of HD800 cables with balanced termination is another way to go, but they do charge a lot for them.


Edited by wisemanja - 6/27/13 at 11:54am
post #1144 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASOKA View Post

I think HDVD800 is more worth buying than HDVA600. The DAC section is HDVD800 is excellent and sure worth the price difference. Getting a seperate DAC with same performence of HDVD800's DAC,  cost at least 700 US dollar not including cables and not mention, it is a fully balanced layout
I think the hdvd800s dac is good 4 the money,as a all in 1 solution,but if and when u get a better dac ur gonna see just how good this amp is,believe me this amp will blow u away its that good.i would recommend this amp 2 anyone.
post #1145 of 2240

This is  from Axel Grell regarding some of the questions I had asked and his response from the Project manager himself regarding some design questions and  the output impedance which he told me was 43 ohms.

 

 

 

nced amplifier. The information that has been released so far is very vague. Is the USB a aschronyous design or it is not. 
** It is an asychronyous design using a xmos processor. 
 Other questions  I need for my review include the empower rating for the amplifier. How much power does it put into 32ohms,50ohms, and higher inputs like 300 ohms and 600 ohms.How many amplifiers are used in the hdvd800?   
** The output power into 600ohms is 480mW. The values for 32ohms, 64ohms, 150ohms and 300ohms will be available tomorrow. There are 4 amplifiers in the HDVD 800.

What is the input impedance of the amplifier. 
** It is 10k for the RCA input and 20k for the XLR input. The output impedance is 43ohms. 

 Internet articles from the Munich show suggested it was 43 ohms. Can you verify what all the specifications are?  People are concerned about the DAC issue. I have tried high resolution files from three or four vendors all different and mostly 24-176.4 DSD files and others up to 24-192 hz and they all are hissing and not playable. What is being done to fix this problem?.  Potential customers want to know why this problem is occurring on the hDVD800 DAC and not on other DAC's. My Oppo BDP 105 sailed through all the same files.. 
** We have tested HDVD 800 carefully before we relesed to the market. With the files we have used and the measurement equipment we never found this behaviour. But now customers send us 24-192kHz files wich produce a lot of noise with the HDVD 800. We have analyzed the files and found they contain a lot of hiss in the inaudible range close to the half of the sampling frequency. We are working on a new firmware that will solve this problem.


Edited by Frank I - 6/27/13 at 12:21pm
post #1146 of 2240

All of this of course is subjective, some like myself will love the setup, others will hate it. Simply - try it out and if you like it - buy it. If not, try something else...and so on. I spend about an hour a day listening to mine in my study, whilst catching up on my emails, etc. For me, it's the perfect set up for my needs.
 

post #1147 of 2240

Regarding the "4 amplifiers" in the HDVD800. This is still pretty ambiguous to me. It can be read in at least 2 ways:

 

1 ) If a balanced amplifier is one of these amps, then this could be interpreted as each output on the front of the HDVD800 panel is driven by it's own amplifier (hence "4 amplifiers"). This seems rather unlikely but who knows?

 

2) A SINGLE balanced stereo amplifier is going to have 4 sections to it, A left channel amplifier, a left channel inverted amplifier, a right channel amplifier, and a right channel inverted amplifier. Together, these "4 amplifier" sections (each an amp in its own right) form a single (i.e., ONE) balanced stereo amplifier. The output of this would then have to be bussed across the 4 output jacks on the HDVD800.

 

So which is it? What is the definition of the word "amplifier" when they say there are 4 of them in the HDVD800? If it is as given in item #1 above, that would be really terrific! I would have 4 totally discreet headphone amplifiers in the HDVD800 and plugging in multiple headphones of varying impedances would not affect the sound of any other output. However, if it is as in item #2 above it is just marketing. If you have a truly balanced stereo amplifier, it will always have 4 internal amplifier sections, won't it?

 

So again I ask, what do they mean by 4 amplifiers?

 

- Jeff

post #1148 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

Regarding the "4 amplifiers" in the HDVD800. This is still pretty ambiguous to me. It can be read in at least 2 ways:

 

1 ) If a balanced amplifier is one of these amps, then this could be interpreted as each output on the front of the HDVD800 panel is driven by it's own amplifier (hence "4 amplifiers"). This seems rather unlikely but who knows?

 

2) A SINGLE balanced stereo amplifier is going to have 4 sections to it, A left channel amplifier, a left channel inverted amplifier, a right channel amplifier, and a right channel inverted amplifier. Together, these "4 amplifier" sections (each an amp in its own right) form a single (i.e., ONE) balanced stereo amplifier. The output of this would then have to be bussed across the 4 output jacks on the HDVD800.

 

So which is it? What is the definition of the word "amplifier" when they say there are 4 of them in the HDVD800? If it is as given in item #1 above, that would be really terrific! I would have 4 totally discreet headphone amplifiers in the HDVD800 and plugging in multiple headphones of varying impedances would not affect the sound of any other output. However, if it is as in item #2 above it is just marketing. If you have a truly balanced stereo amplifier, it will always have 4 internal amplifier sections, won't it?

 

So again I ask, what do they mean by 4 amplifiers?

 

- Jeff


I guess is that it s just marking for the balance setup. As you said, 4 mono blocks.

 

If they do have 4 different amp build for 2 balanced and 2 single ended, the amp will be massive and the gain of each output should be adjustable (or, they give you 4 volume knob~~~). Otherwise it will be pointless~~~

In addition, for four amps, the cost will easily went up to $10,000+ if the amp wants to keep up to HD800 level. 

 

Hence, I think the best way to power this amp is one phone at a time~~~~~~ Although I have Both T1 and HD800 plugged in 4-pin xlr and ED8 in single ended to just "Burn in" my amp~~~~

post #1149 of 2240

I notice that my HD800s are significantly louder when using the balanced connection compared to unbalanced at the same volume knob location.

post #1150 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICWUTUDIDTHAR View Post

I notice that my HD800s are significantly louder when using the balanced connection compared to unbalanced at the same volume knob location.

 

That would make sense as the unbalanced connector is likely only coming off of one side of the balance amp, so the voltage swing will only be from that one section of the amp (i.e., it is half of the total voltage swing that you would get when using the two halves together in the balance configuration.)

 

the balanced configuration will give you twice the voltage (or 4 times the power) of the unbalance output.

 

(Again, assuming that the "4 amplifiers" description means a single stereo balanced amp -- or a single unbalanced stereo amp with two amplifier sections not being used)

post #1151 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisemanja View Post

 

That would make sense as the unbalanced connector is likely only coming off of one side of the balance amp, so the voltage swing will only be from that one section of the amp (i.e., it is half of the total voltage swing that you would get when using the two halves together in the balance configuration.)

 

the balanced configuration will give you twice the voltage (or 4 times the power) of the unbalance output.

 

(Again, assuming that the "4 amplifiers" description means a single stereo balanced amp -- or a single unbalanced stereo amp with two amplifier sections not being used)

 

Yeah, that would make a lot of sense.

post #1152 of 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICWUTUDIDTHAR View Post

 

Yeah, that would make a lot of sense.

 

And here's another fun way of looking at it. If you have an HDVD800 and you are NOT using balanced headphones, you are wasting half of the electronics in the device (since they are contributing nothing to the sound output).

post #1153 of 2240

Yes, I would definitely recommend using a balanced connection witht his amp. I find it gives my HD800 a lot more power and better separation in the left and right channels. Overall a better experience then using the unbalanced hook up.

post #1154 of 2240

I hope customcables ship my balanced cables soon :(

post #1155 of 2240

I've had my Sennheiser HD650 for about seven years now - very happy with them...

 

I've had my HDVD 800 for about two months now - made my HD650 sound like a pair of new headphones (in a positive way, that is)

 

I've had my aftermarket balanced headphone cable from Q-cables about one month now - definitely another step up in quality worth the price for me

 

----------------

 

When I ordered my q-cable I ordered adapters for both my HD650 but also to the HD800, which I don't own any today but plan to do so in the future... I recall reading about people who were very happy with their HD650 until they heard the HD800...

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