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Sennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier - Page 70

post #1036 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosmadi Mahmood View Post

Hi everyone,

 

I just met with Axel Grell in our headquarters and he has provided the following explanation.

 

"Some customers found some 24Bit 192kHz files create noise when played via USB on the HDVD 800. We have analyzed the files and found they contain information above half of the sampling frequency. This leads to interference and noise when not pre-filtered before digital/analog conversion according to the Nyquist theorem. There is a failure in the files that must have been done in the mastering process. Other DACs do not give the full resolution and avoid this problems. In the meantime we are looking for a solution that allows the full bandwidth as well as a limited bandwidth for non-standard conform files."

 
Frank, I believe you'll get a similar response from Sennheiser USA very shortly. I'll try to get as much information while I'm here in Germany and keep everyone posted.

Now this made me kinda hate Sennheiser, this is just a lame excuse. Axel Grell said something very silly about the balanced Senn headphone cables as well, that the negative phase is reducted in the transducer or something like that. But there is no negative phase in the first place...

And frequencies above 96kHz are definitely useless. Not only that, but this is a headphone-amplifier and there are no headphones that go beyond 96kHz or get even close, heck, nothing even reaches 60kHz (AFAIK) because the HD800 reaches 44.1kHz (51kHz but that's -10dB...) and the SR-009 (which doesn't even work with this amp) reaches 42kHz.

 

They just grabbed a cheap-ass DAC, didn't bother testing is properly and marketed the hell out of it instead and now there are too many issues, especially for a flagship unit.

I can only like them again if they'd recall the units and fix all of them but they got their money so they probably don't care anymore.

 

Excuses is all that they're giving now, because they don't want to damage their reputation.

Sure the excuse has a point, but the entire industry disagrees and they know that very well themselves.

 

Hopefully they'll find a "solution" for your guys, otherwise you'll have to make do with a cut-off filter in foobar that cuts of at ~96kHz, there are no headphones that reproduce this but you did pay for bit-perfect and that's what the fancy marketing video said so it's a bummer really...


Edited by MelvinV - 6/21/13 at 4:20am
post #1037 of 2308

I wonder how many reviewers picked this problem up and mentioned it.

post #1038 of 2308
Not really a bummer. This amp sounds perfect to my ears with all files other than some on HD tracks. High res audio is pointless and I only have some because they were albums that I couldn't find on cd or didn't want to wait. Now as to using a 3rd party software ,it's not just about 'bit perfect' transfer there are other benefits . I can't hear a difference between I tunes and pure music but I like hog mode auto sample rate switching. For any albums that exhibit this hiss, just convert then to 96/24 . Problem solved and they sound identical.
post #1039 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

Not really a bummer. This amp sounds perfect to my ears with all files other than some on HD tracks. High res audio is pointless and I only have some because they were albums that I couldn't find on cd or didn't want to wait. Now as to using a 3rd party software ,it's not just about 'bit perfect' transfer there are other benefits . I can't hear a difference between I tunes and pure music but I like hog mode auto sample rate switching. For any albums that exhibit this hiss, just convert then to 96/24 . Problem solved and they sound identical.

It is a problem, you purchased a flagship unit that supports 192kHz and it turns out that it doesn't support it.

You could want 192kHz for the possible improvement over 96kHz and now it turns out that you can't do it.

 

That is like buying an expensive car with airconditioning just to find out that the airconditioning doesn't work and then say "I don't need it anyway, it's always 20 degrees Celsius over here.", does that make any sense to you?

 

If cheap FiiO can do 192kHz on units where they say that 192kHz is supported why not ultra-"high-end" made in Germany Sennheiser with a price tag 10 times as high?

 

Sounds to me like you convinced yourself to not mind it because you don't want to feel ripped off, which is completely understandable.

But I believe that Sennheiser shouldn't be able to get away with this, because this is rip-off just past the borderline if you ask me.


Edited by MelvinV - 6/21/13 at 4:37am
post #1040 of 2308
I do agree with most of your points but I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions about how little testing sennheiser did with this amp. I would expect such a big well regarded company would of tested this product fully if not just to prevent recalls. As far as I can see the problem seems to be limited to some HD tracks so it could be as Axel said. Lets wait to see who is at fault before saying senneiser have ripped us off .
post #1041 of 2308
It does play 192khz files, t seems o be Hdtracks files affected only.
post #1042 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post

I am also getting the hiss on the c.c coletti tracks using pure music for mac. I have a feeling it could be the HD track files. I've read several times before that its pot luck when it comes to quality from HD tracks and some high res files are actually upsampled. Now as to why this noise doesn't effect other dacs is more complicated but could it not be that the other dacs are not 'bit perfect' dacs and are filtering the noise somehow? Maybe sennheiser have actually implemented that dac to spit out exactly what is put in but others play it safer? Just a thought .

its not the files. It going it on all other high resolution files whether its hd tracks,Blue Coast Records,Pure music or Channel Recordings. I am not buying the fact that its the file and not the sac. The Oppo BDP95 using Sabre Dacs sails through the same files

post #1043 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosmadi Mahmood View Post

Hi everyone,

 

I just met with Axel Grell in our headquarters and he has provided the following explanation.

 

"Some customers found some 24Bit 192kHz files create noise when played via USB on the HDVD 800. We have analyzed the files and found they contain information above half of the sampling frequency. This leads to interference and noise when not pre-filtered before digital/analog conversion according to the Nyquist theorem. There is a failure in the files that must have been done in the mastering process. Other DACs do not give the full resolution and avoid this problems. In the meantime we are looking for a solution that allows the full bandwidth as well as a limited bandwidth for non-standard conform files."

 
Frank, I believe you'll get a similar response from Sennheiser USA very shortly. I'll try to get as much information while I'm here in Germany and keep everyone posted.

If that were the case then why is my other dac the Oppo BDP95 which uses the Sabre 32 bit Dac not do it. If it were the files then it should happen on the other dac as well which is playing those same files without an issue. I believe it could be the hdvd800 . The problems needs to be corrected from Germany and Mr Grell needs to find out why or where this problem is coming from the product and should be addressed and fixed accordingly. It plays files up to 24 96Hz perfectly and sounds fantastic but something is wrong when it up samples to the 24 192 hz and it not the files in my opinion. I look foward to Sennheiser coming up with a solution. Thank you Rosmadi for getting into the mix.


Edited by Frank I - 6/21/13 at 5:48am
post #1044 of 2308
Ok now I know it's other files and not only HD tracks I am more convinced that it is just a fault with the dac. Personally I can live without using 192/24 but agree it is unacceptable to sell a product with this problem.
post #1045 of 2308
I can't get my head around the way the fault occurs though, only on certain tracks within albums. It doesn't make sense. 2 tracks in about 40 all in 192/24 alac. Why these 2 tracks and not others ?!
post #1046 of 2308

A first class maker would come forward, admit the problem and try solve it.

post #1047 of 2308

No manufacturer should release a product without running it through a torture test gauntlet first. HDTracks and the other music sources cited here as causing problems are not esoteric niche sources. They are popular mainstream sources.

 

I still say Sennheiser should have licensed a proven DAC from another company in order to avoid this problem in the first place. 24/192 sources have been around and commercially available for over a decade. Come on...


Edited by palmfish - 6/21/13 at 7:14am
post #1048 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

A first class maker would never release a product without running through a torture test gauntlet first. And Sennheiser should have licensed a proven DAC from another company in order to avoid this problem in the first place.

They did . Its a Burr Brown Dac.

post #1049 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

They did . Its a Burr Brown Dac.

 

The chip is Burr Brown (Texas Instruments). This means nothing since TI, Cirrus, Wolfson, AKM, etc. all make chips for the consumer market. Of significance is the implementation of the chip, not the chip itself. Many products use a Burr Brown chip and dont have this problem.


Edited by palmfish - 6/21/13 at 7:25am
post #1050 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

 

The chip is Burr Brown (Texas Instruments). We dont know which chip is used or anything about the DAC.

 

Many products use a Burr Brown chip and dont have this problem.

They are working out the fix and will make sure everyone  is satisfied. They dac works well up to 24-96. 

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