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post #91 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 

Yes, but even drivers like 2000/CI are redesigned inside with improved shock-proofing over the old design.

 

I would also say the newer designs are better for specific frequency application - like SWFK (ultra tweeter) or 3800 (the most badass woofer) - there's a lot of modifications with newer designs possible like highly inductive coils or Type III damping, but in most cases it's still working on existing drivers families. In most cases as well developing completely new drivers is not necessary.

Was the SWFK out just recently? The best tweeter I heard from Knowles was the WBFK but that was a few years back. 

 

Anyway I also think there're already tons of things the companies could do with available transducers. Call me a fanboy but FitEar has been sticking with only 3 models ever since they started out 7 years ago, and 2 out of 3 were designed in the 80s. Yet they are probably one of those that lead the market atm in terms of sound tuning. The next models that're rumored to be coming out next month are drawing attention already.

post #92 of 128

 

 I did not find any tech info on swfk. Do you have a pdf?

post #93 of 128

Do you guys think in terms of resolving ability or picking up nuances, is BA more limited than the big headphones such as the currently popular Planar Magnetics?  Why is that so?  Is there an aspect to iems that cannot produce the same dynamics and clarity as the bigger phones?

post #94 of 128

Did you check JH interview. He said all BA roll off at 10khz & thats true so it has limited range.

post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 The best tweeter I heard from Knowles was the WBFK but that was a few years back. 

Do you mean WBFK part of TWFK series?

Do you guys  think Sonion has edge over Knowles in case of tweeter range.

post #96 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Do you guys think in terms of resolving ability or picking up nuances, is BA more limited than the big headphones such as the currently popular Planar Magnetics?  Why is that so?  Is there an aspect to iems that cannot produce the same dynamics and clarity as the bigger phones?

I think it's not a fair comparison when you bring those 2 onto the same table. Their natures are completely different and from the beginning they were designed with different mindsets. 

 

Regardless, I would say BAs are a lot more limited in terms of performance compared to dynamic transducers, let alone the Planar or even Electro stat while we are at it. They were designed for hearing impaired people in the 1st place anyway, that and the mechanism of balanced armatures also restrict the range they perform. There's been a lot innovation going on recently but I haven't heard any BA that covers frequency range as effectively as (high quality) dynamic transducers.

post #97 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

Do you mean WBFK part of TWFK series?

Do you guys  think Sonion has edge over Knowles in case of tweeter range.

Well yes. But I used the standalone WBFKs back then. They sounded a bit different compared to the WBFK part on the TWFK.

 

The 2300 series from Sonion cannot compete with top tiers tweeters from Knowles unless you stick them with a horn. 

post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

I think it's not a fair comparison when you bring those 2 onto the same table. Their natures are completely different and from the beginning they were designed with different mindsets. 

 

Regardless, I would say BAs are a lot more limited in terms of performance compared to dynamic transducers, let alone the Planar or even Electro stat while we are at it. They were designed for hearing impaired people in the 1st place anyway, that and the mechanism of balanced armatures also restrict the range they perform. There's been a lot innovation going on recently but I haven't heard any BA that covers frequency range as effectively as (high quality) dynamic transducers.

are you meaning dynamic iems?  If so, which do you think has the best implementation?

post #99 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

are you meaning dynamic iems?  If so, which do you think has the best implementation?

'Best' is a very subjective term and I would refrain from using it. Honestly I'm not keeping up with the market's recent offerings and my experiences might be outdated already. Anyway regarding dynamic iems I really like the ie800 and those from Ocharaku. Of course they have their own drawbacks but they definitely showed me that dynamic transducers are not lagging behind in this game. 

 

For single driver BA iem I quite like those IEMs Final Audio designed for Astell & Kern. Really surprised when I found out they were actually single driver.

post #100 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

'Best' is a very subjective term and I would refrain from using it. Honestly I'm not keeping up with the market's recent offerings and my experiences might be outdated already. Anyway regarding dynamic iems I really like the ie800 and those from Ocharaku. Of course they have their own drawbacks but they definitely showed me that dynamic transducers are not lagging behind in this game. 

 

For single driver BA iem I quite like those IEMs Final Audio designed for Astell & Kern. Really surprised when I found out they were actually single driver.

As for those single drivers.  I wonder if they get them specifically tuned from OEM.  Possibly Ety might have been getting custom tuned single driver from Knowels.  

Like you said, dynamics are lagging a bit when it comes to popularity.  If you look at Joker's list, it's pretty apparent.  BA are at the top of the game, so I don't know if dynamics for iems perform that well.  Now, multiple BA are being utilized to extrend the high end like JH talked about(not sure if it gets cut off at 10k), I know from what I've heard, NT6 is very detailed and clear with extended treble(not sure how far it extends).

 

As for as dynamics, I have not heard the new JVC FX850 and the Final Audio series(it seams the heaven series are pretty popular here).


Edited by SilverEars - 4/26/14 at 9:03am
post #101 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

As for those single drivers.  I wonder if they get them specifically tuned from OEM.  Possibly Ety might have been getting custom tuned single driver from Knowels.  

Like you said, dynamics are lagging a bit when it comes to popularity.  If you look at Joker's list, it's pretty apparent.  BA are at the top of the game, so I don't know if dynamics for iems perform that well.  Now, multiple BA are being utilized to extrend the high end like JH talked about(not sure if it gets cut off at 10k), I know from what I've heard, NT6 is very detailed and clear with extended treble(not sure how far it extends).

 

As for as dynamics, I have not heard the new JVC FX850 and the Final Audio series(it seams the heaven series are pretty popular here).

Last I heard Ety used the stock ED29689 for their famous ER4-S. 

 

The winning factor that BAs over dynamic is their miniature form. While it's impossible for even the most 'hi-end' BA to win against any dynamic transducer, having just 2 or 3 is enough to turn the table. I'm sure dynamic drivers benefit just the same when the multiple of them are combined together, just take a look at UM's 3DD. Performance wise (frequency response, bandwidth, impedance, phase, THD etc.), I prefer them over the Miracle and I'm pretty sure they have what it takes to compete with market's top tiers, yet their size is a big letdown. No one would wear that huge chunk of plastic comfortably for hours.


Edited by tranhieu - 4/26/14 at 9:13am
post #102 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

 

The winning factor that BAs over dynamic is their miniature form. While it's impossible for even the most 'hi-end' BA to win against any dynamic transducer, having just 2 or 3 is enough to turn the table. 

I dont think even 8 or 10 BA combination can match full range Dynamic like Sony Ex-1000

16 driver BA

 

post #103 of 128

NT6 is spec'ed to go to 18khz, and looking at measurements of a couple of sets, it appears to cut off at 17-18 kHz. Curiously enough, the single driver Hidition ear first appears to have better presence in the top octave, as measured.


Edited by briskly - 4/26/14 at 9:29am
post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

I dont think even 8 or 10 BA combination can match full range Dynamic like Sony Ex-1000

16 driver BA

 

 

I don't understand the GoldenEar target flat line being there.  Why is it flat?  Sean Olive has a compensation graph for what I believe to be perceived neutral from the ear, and it's not a flat line.

post #105 of 128

Sean Olive's compensation is more or less derived from adjustments to diffuse field equalization. Golden ears uses a different target in which their compensation is already built into the graphs. For example, the same JH16 presented earlier, now on an uncompensated graph.

 

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