**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 564

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

^^ Isn't the he-4 350 g? Don't hate me, just asking. 

And HE400 440g, and HE500/6 500g. It seems they all have an extra 40g tacked on in practice?

Yeah when I weighed my HE-500 it was 539g with pleather pads.  Sounds about right.

i'm sure someone could run a marathon wth any of those right?

pfffft....350 grams

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

 

 

Yes I agree that most of the human vocals (even female ones) are centered in the lower-mid midrange-- where the HE-400 are NOT recessed.  I have seen your link before, but I don't know where I could find it either.  For the most part, headphones I've heard with more upfront vocal had to do more with their soundstage representation than their frequency response.

 

The upper midrange affects things more like the energy and bite of percussion, electric guitars, the cry of violins etc-- all harmonics. 

 

While I can agree that the sibilance found in most vocals tends to be a fault of the recording and mastering processes, lowering the HE-400's treble around 10-15khz a little bit does help this problem quite a bit.  It's not just that the HE-400 is an unforgiving headphone, it's that it has an un-naturally elevated high treble.  HD800 apologists have been using the same unforgiving argument for years now, even though HD800 has an elevated shelf of treble from 6khz onwards. 

 

Yes, I do know that most naturally occurring sibilance isn't found in the 10-15khz region, but it's still nice to have treble more natural so that most recording and masterings sound more natural on the headphones on the process.

 

For the most part I find HE-400 to be not very sibilant-prone unless it's a highly filtered pop song etc.

The Human voice does not go anywhere NEAR 10-15 khz. You are not doing anything to "sibilance" in human voices by trimming those frequencies. But you may be taking some of the bite out of a very limited set of instruments / harmonics that MAY reach that high.

Without a question, critical human voice frequencies are in the 100hz - perhaps 3 kHz range - with the most critical frequencies in the approximate middle of that. At the low end, mostly just bassy, muffled nonsense. At the very high end, likely no male voices (maybe Eunuchs), and the trailing "hot" end of female vocals. Hence, the HE-400 already 'recesses' the critical mid frequencies which would probably produce the most sibilance / irritation. What is clear, however, is that the HE-400 DO give a bit of a hump centered at 1 KHz, hence I would look to that area for sibilance correction.

Not harping on you in particular, but when people talk "mids, highs, and lows", its pretty important to be precise. Probably 90% of music occurs in the much more narrow range of, say, 60 Hz  - 10 KHz. That is why those are the frequencies that I pay closest attention to when trying to "EQ" something nasty out of my phones / speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggahwhat 

You guys certainly do sound like HE-400 apologists, especially when claims that the HE-400 is as good as the LCD-2 are thrown around. 

 

I'm convinced the HE-400 is a good, but flawed headphone. Vocals disappear behind the drums, hi-hats, and instruments when they clearly shouldn't. Sibilance is a frequent problem and treble balance is also an issue. The "thinness" of the overall sound is also a negative. Plus, the lack of decent bass impact with velours and a less-than-ideal subbass extension. 

 

In the end the HE-400 is very technically adept but I don't think I can call it "musical". It doesn't make the music fun and engaging the way my D2000s did, for instance (and I'm sure there's a multitude of headphones that can be described as more musical in or around this price range). 

You should check to be sure that you had revision 2 drivers.

Secondly, most people that "get it" got it after several hours of brain-burn-in. Its hard for the mind to hear perfection when it was trained by cr**. And yes, I said perfection. lol.

I've already read your purely objective approach once, I don't want to read it again-- I get it.  I'm giving impressions from personal experience while you're just throwing numbers at me. I've EQ'd the region from 8-16khz down in multiple EQs, including parametric ones, and it goes quite a ways in reducing some of the sibilance found in HE-400.  I already acknowledged the fact that vocals don't naturally reach that high, and I even said in the post you quoted that it mostly helps sibilance found in pop and other songs that are highly filtered and EQ'd during the mastering process (which you conveniently didn't decide to bold).  It's VERY evident in those specified highly filtered songs (like rap for example).  On very well recorded and even acoustic only recordings, HE-400 is mostly sibilant free.

Most people would agree that the majority of 'th' and 's' sibilants can extend up to 8khz-- not including any other processing done to the song.

The LCD2 for instance, has more upper midrange presence than the HE-400, but in comparison it is mostly sibilant free unless the original recording had it really bad.  The difference?  LCD2 has no huge spike in the mid-upper treble.  Both headphones are relatively ringing free too, so there's no affect to be had from unwanted resonances-- but according to your argument it would be the more sibilant of the two headphones. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMateoHead 

The Human voice does not go anywhere NEAR 10-15 khz. You are not doing anything to "sibilance" in human voices by trimming those frequencies. But you may be taking some of the bite out of a very limited set of instruments / harmonics that MAY reach that high.

 

Without a question, critical human voice frequencies are in the 100hz - perhaps 3 kHz range - with the most critical frequencies in the approximate middle of that. At the low end, mostly just bassy, muffled nonsense. At the very high end, likely no male voices (maybe Eunuchs), and the trailing "hot" end of female vocals. Hence, the HE-400 already 'recesses' the critical mid frequencies which would probably produce the most sibilance / irritation. What is clear, however, is that the HE-400 DO give a bit of a hump centered at 1 KHz, hence I would look to that area for sibilance correction.

 

Not harping on you in particular, but when people talk "mids, highs, and lows", its pretty important to be precise. Probably 90% of music occurs in the much more narrow range of, say, 60 Hz  - 10 KHz. That is why those are the frequencies that I pay closest attention to when trying to "EQ" something nasty out of my phones / speakers.

There is a tizz that is mostly associated with mic artifacts with human vocals (esp with raspy female vocals) in the teen kilohertz range. That's the problem spot I think.

I'm not a big fan of really bright treble but even though the highs on the HE-400 are on the brighter side I'm liking them quite a bit.  I think the mix of the crisp highs and warmer mids along with the awesome bass these are pretty much perfect for me.

Just want to start by saying that all of you who have contributed to this thread have seriously helped me to make buying decisions. Thanks to the info I picked up an E17 when I first got my HE400 just to get started. It's done a great job for what it is, but I'm looking for a final upgrade. 

Would like some recommendations for a "transportable" amp/dac that will be the best match for the HE400 and bring it up to its full potential. I use it thru an old Macbook Pro, iPad/iPhone, and my work PC with a poor sound card. These are some of the ideas I've gathered:

Leckerton UHA-6S MKII

RSA Predator

O2 + ODAC

ALO International

NuForce Icon HDP

Quote:

Originally Posted by flilow06 

Just want to start by saying that all of you who have contributed to this thread have seriously helped me to make buying decisions. Thanks to the info I picked up an E17 when I first got my HE400 just to get started. It's done a great job for what it is, but I'm looking for a final upgrade. 

 

Would like some recommendations for a "transportable" amp/dac that will be the best match for the HE400 and bring it up to its full potential. I use it thru an old Macbook Pro, iPad/iPhone, and my work PC with a poor sound card. These are some of the ideas I've gathered:

 

Leckerton UHA-6S MKII

RSA Predator

O2 + ODAC

ALO International

NuForce Icon HDP

The DACMini is a great sounding little unit that would be easily  transportable. I've personally owned that one and I liked it a lot but it didn't have quite enough power for me. I ended up with a Grace Designs m903 and I love it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareyb 

The DACMini is a great sounding little unit that would be easily  transportable. I've personally owned that one and I liked it a lot but it didn't have quite enough power for me. I ended up with a Grace Designs m903 and I love it.

That's a great write-up. I fear that I may follow down your path, but I was hoping I could satisfy the HE400 with something in the $250 - $500 range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flilow06 

That's a great write-up. I fear that I may follow down your path, but I was hoping I could satisfy the HE400 with something in the $250 - $500 range.

I ended up needing one with a remote control and that immediately pushed up the price range. You can get something pretty good I'd think for under five bills. At worst case you'd just have to go separates along the lines of the Magni/Modi combo from Schiit. I had an Icon iDo for a while, while it didn't get particularly "loud" it had a pretty nice sound. I wish I could advise you on the others but I haven't heard any of the rest. The 400s are pretty easy to drive though, so there should be a lot of choices.