**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 529

It looks better than it really is. D2000 is a headphone where the bass isn't overwhelming (in most cases, sometimes it is) but there's just something really right about its bass. In electronic music if there's a fast, aggressive bassline you can follow it and the D2000 is just sublime.

Raise the mids, lower the treble, and that headphone would be my perfect headphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg 

Not really in practice. 

Are you saying Tyll's measurements are off? :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

Nice pics!! I gave this small stack a good listen a few weekends ago. I thought it was decent but it just really didn't wow me. I'll be firing up the Asgard 2 this week for a good comparative review. 

Woot woot :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

Nice pics!! I gave this small stack a good listen a few weekends ago. I thought it was decent but it just really didn't wow me. I'll be firing up the Asgard 2 this week for a good comparative review. 

Thanks, yea I believe Bifrost + Lyr will make me "wow" more  but that will have to wait :) Looking forward on Asgard 2 comparison ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleybob217 

Are you saying Tyll's measurements are off? :p

Yes and no, depending on how you interpret the measurements.

Anyway in practice, HE400 with unmodded pleathers start a gentle roll-off around 30 Hz, and a steep roll-off around 25 Hz. With velours the roll-off is a bit less steep but still very apparent.

In my opinion the sub-bass extension is a factor of the earpads and how they contact the headphone cups. You could probably push a few dBs more out of 20-25 Hz with a simple modification or two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg 

 

Anyway in practice, HE400 with unmodded pleathers start a gentle roll-off around 30 Hz, and a steep roll-off around 25 Hz. With velours the roll-off is a bit less steep but still very apparent.

 

Where are you seeing this?

The only measurements I've seen only have a very gentle, inaudible rolloff all the way into 10Hz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

Where are you seeing this?

 

The only measurements I've seen only have a very gentle, inaudible rolloff all the way into 10Hz.

Again, in practice. 

Do real life listening yourself, don't just rely on the measurements.  For me, the HE-400's bass starts rolling off after 40hz-- very gently, to 30hz.  After 30hz it takes a nosefall.  The LCD2 I tested recently is good down to 30hz and rolls off after 30hz.  A machine might say they're flat to 20hz and below, but let your ears do the listening.  Headphones don't move enough air to give you the impact under 30hz that much, and whatever's heard in closed headphones or other basshead headphones under 30hz is usually harmonics and slow decaying bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

Do real life listening yourself, don't just rely on the measurements.  For me, the HE-400's bass starts rolling off after 40hz-- very gently, to 30hz.  After 30hz it takes a nosefall.  The LCD2 I tested recently is good down to 30hz and rolls off after 30hz.  A machine might say they're flat to 20hz and below, but let your ears do the listening.  Headphones don't move enough air to give you the impact under 30hz that much, and whatever's heard in closed headphones or other basshead headphones under 30hz is usually harmonics and slow decaying bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg 

Again, in practice. 

You guys don't seem to be very familiar with this:

A brief explanation of how to read it, the Y-axis is the level needed to reach the same loudness as 1kHz.

If there is a steep rolloff as you approach the inaudible frequencies, that means it's flat. If a pair of headphones had bass that sounded flat to the human ear, it would be unsafe to listen to

We're not saying that they rolloff on an audible level, the both of us are far too seasoned to make that mistake.  We're saying they rolloff energy wise.  HE-400 can't quite put off as much pressure as the LCD2 at 30hz, as an example.  Square waves will confirm that as well. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

Do real life listening yourself, don't just rely on the measurements.  For me, the HE-400's bass starts rolling off after 40hz-- very gently, to 30hz.  After 30hz it takes a nosefall.  The LCD2 I tested recently is good down to 30hz and rolls off after 30hz.  A machine might say they're flat to 20hz and below, but let your ears do the listening.  Headphones don't move enough air to give you the impact under 30hz that much, and whatever's heard in closed headphones or other basshead headphones under 30hz is usually harmonics and slow decaying bass.

You're supposed to hear less and less below 30hz. You can't even hear anything below 20hz...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

We're not saying that they rolloff on an audible level, the both of us are far too seasoned to make that mistake.  We're saying they rolloff energy wise.  HE-400 can't quite put off as much pressure as the LCD2 at 30hz, as an example.  Square waves will confirm that as well. 

Exactly; HE400 playing a 20 Hz tone just sounds like the diaphragm weakly flopping at 20 Hz with little to no air movement, a huge difference from its energy at 30 Hz or even at 25 Hz. I have a comparison target that is my HE500 with heavily modded earpads, and it is able to deliver consistent sub-bass energy down to about 22 Hz before a sharp drop in air movement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleybob217 

You're supposed to hear less and less below 30hz. You can't even hear anything below 20hz...

 

What you don't hear, you feel (assuming the energy is the same) around those frequencies. A 25 Hz tone or 20 Hz tone that has comparable energy to 30 Hz feel very different from those tones without energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

We're not saying that they rolloff on an audible level, the both of us are far too seasoned to make that mistake.  We're saying they rolloff energy wise.  HE-400 can't quite put off as much pressure as the LCD2 at 30hz, as an example.  Square waves will confirm that as well. 

I could see that.

But I think square waves are a little silly to look at though. They're basically really cryptic FR graphs(they have harmonics that extend throughout the audible range, they don't represent only bass), and inaudible things can totally mess one up.

Well, it looks like my HE400 has been "acting up" these past couple of days. The left channel appears to randomly cut off and there also seems to be some from channel imbalance from the left channel at times. I purchased it in June 2012 from an Amazon.de Marketplace vendor, and up until now it has been performing very well.

Anything I should try before getting in touch with HFM?

*By the way, the cable appears to be undamaged, and the rest of my setup has been functioning flawlessly with other headphones*

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

I could see that.

 

But I think square waves are a little silly to look at though. They're basically really cryptic FR graphs(they have harmonics that extend throughout the audible range, they don't represent only bass), and inaudible things can totally mess one up.

I'm not saying they're the last word in telling you how a headphone will perform, but more often than not the 30hz ones on inner fidelity do a good job of telling you how well the headphone holds up on low low notes.