**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 491

One of the many nice things about the HE400s is that they EQ very nicely. I had my E17 at +8 Bass last night with some SERIOUS dubstep tracks and they never missed a beat.  They weren't that far off from my Pro 900s only with far superior mids and highs. They definitely satisfy the "Basshead" in me. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy 


Notice I said PEOPLE. I didn't even come close to implying anything about you directly. It was a generalization, that if people want lots of bass, they look elsewhere.

And you wanting more bass impact is essentially wanting bass emphasis in comparison to what it is right now, which is actually emphasized bass as is. So yes, that's what people would gather from your post.

You were responding to me, two and two together, easy to see, etc. But anyway, like I said, I thanked you for your post, I was just clarifying my position. And no, I do not want the bass to be the emphasis of the sound - for the second time. Thanks

Even if you're a basshead (and have an EQ at your disposal), I'd still recommend the HE-400.. most likely over any open, full sized phone it directly competes with.  The HE-400 EQ's amazingly well.. so instead of being stuck with some other overly warm, slow, bassy, 'one tricky pony' 'basshead' phone, get the HE-400 and intricately trick out the bass to your heart's desire.  Some people like lots of midbass.. others go for lots of subbass.. the HE-400 can boost any of it with the best of them and not sound strained or muddied in the slightest.  Plus you'll get the mesmerizing speed the planar driver offers.. something very few, if any, (pure) dynamic drivers are able to match.

Hmm, seeing some posts about the HE-400 and it's EQ potential. Wish I would have tried that before I sent them out

I'm one who isn't very fond of EQ'ing higher end headphones. I always think it'll degrade it's overall sound somehow. Even if that was so, I guess that's better than being stuck with a signature that doesn't quite match up to your preference.

Originally Posted by Katun 

Hmm, seeing some posts about the HE-400 and it's EQ potential. Wish I would have tried that before I sent them out

 

I'm one who isn't very fond of EQ'ing higher end headphones. I always think it'll degrade it's overall sound somehow. Even if that was so, I guess that's better than being stuck with a signature that doesn't quite match up to your preference.

I'm the same way.. in fact, I don't EQ at all.. regardless of the price/tier of the phone.. guess it's the purist snob in me.. but I've also never felt the desire to EQ a phone I've bought cause I typically do a ton of reading/research before buying and in most cases, have a very good idea of what I'm going to hear.. and I've rarely been surprised (as far as tuning/fq curve is concerned).  I played around with EQing the HE-400, briefly, just to see how far you could push it before it distorted or sounded incoherent.. I was very impressed with it's versatility & composure even when wildly tuned.. of course it sounded wacky at times.. but that was exclusively due to the EQing more than any technical shortcomings of the drivers themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlySweep 

I'm the same way.. in fact, I don't EQ at all.. regardless of the price/tier of the phone.. guess it's the purist snob in me.. but I've also never felt the desire to EQ a phone I've bought cause I typically do a ton of reading/research before buying and in most cases, have a very good idea of what I'm going to hear.. and I've rarely been surprised (as far as tuning/fq curve is concerned).  I played around with EQing the HE-400, briefly, just to see how far you could push it before it distorted or sounded incoherent.. I was very impressed with it's versatility & composure even when wildly tuned.. of course it sounded wacky at times.. but that was exclusively due to the EQing more than any technical shortcomings of the drivers themselves.

Hmm. I definitely couldn't say I'm the same. Each sound is a partial surprise to me. It's like eating those boxed chocolate, hoping you won't get that toothpaste filled one!

I generally like to "buy low, EQ high", unless I can find a higher end headphone that really nails the sound without the need for any sort of digital modulation. But whenever I feel the need to EQ something higher tiered, I wonder why I simply didn't buy lower and EQ up to that point in the same place. I guess it can be argued that you are "working with more potential", and I'm not sure if that's partially destroyed in the process or not. Generally though, like you mentioned, I'm more of a purist with more expensive gear. HE-400 is no exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katun 

 

Hmm. I definitely couldn't say I'm the same. Each sound is a partial surprise to me. It's like eating those boxed chocolate, hoping you won't get that toothpaste filled one!

 

I generally like to "buy low, EQ high", unless I can find a higher end headphone that really nails the sound without the need for any sort of digital modulation. But whenever I feel the need to EQ something higher tiered, I wonder why I simply didn't buy lower and EQ up to that point in the same place. I guess it can be argued that you are "working with more potential", and I'm not sure if that's partially destroyed in the process or not. Generally though, like you mentioned, I'm more of a purist with more expensive gear. HE-400 is no exception.

Over in sound science there is a debate about whether or not you can, in theory, EQ 2 completely different headphones to sound the same. Given infinite adjustability and perfect knowledge about a given response curve, I would assume that such a thing is possible.

But to me, it is always better to climb up the quality ladder when possible. It is much easier to tame frequencies than to "boost" them without causing distortion or exceeding a driver's physical limits. If you start from a very good sound, it is a lot easier to get to a "great sound" with some tweaking. Also, if you ever take the phones away from your EQ, say, to your friend's house or some other room, you give up all hard work. Great sound right out of the box is always awesomer. The superior physical limit of one driver over another will tend to provide greater SPL potential and headroom as well, which has a value in some applications.

But given all the other variables - source material, electronics, listening environment / conditions and so on, I am not sure you can really solve all the possible issues with EQ alone - it is just one tool. In a car environment, for example, bass response is improved less through EQ (in my opinion), and more from careful positioning, time alignment, and phase. You can't get a "tight bass" from a massive sub 7 feet away from you and a midbass / tweeter 20 inches from your ear. You just need correction for that that does not come from an EQ.

Also, I am not sure any amount of EQ on a 30-40mm driver can replace the massive diaphrapms in the Planars. Surface area advantage will tend to produce a sound that I don't think is replicated by EQ. Easiest comparison is to think of any system you can with 5-8 inch drivers played at max volumes versus another systems that uses 10-15 inch drivers. Or, better yet, put a 3 inch shelf system next to full size towers. In theory, they could sound the same up to a certain SPL with perfect EQ treatment, but I would put $1,000,000 on the full size towers to provide that sound in 10 rooms of different sizes at a greater overall volume. Plus - you would be more likely to enjoy the physical fun of your hair tingling, hair moving, and ears feeling like they are getting stuffed. Moving more air is moving more air.

Finally, Headphones are an utterly different approach to sound that arguably, renders my previous examples irrelevant. A big problem is that the optimal frequency response of headphones is still mostly unknown - since humans perceive headphone sound differently from cans than from speakers. The "flat response" generally desirable from speakers does not hold for headphones. Genetic variations in hearing and user preferences will also play a role. Have you ever just hated the sound of a particular instrument for example? Sometimes I hate trumpets and other brass instruments, but this sure won't stop the world from making them. Anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy 

The bass stays basically the exact same as with pleathers.

Ehh, I would disagree.  I found noticeable improvement in the bass area when I swapped to the velours.  The pleathers muted certain bass frequencies for me, notably the sub bass.  Maybe it fit my head differently?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMateoHead 

Over in sound science there is a debate about whether or not you can, in theory, EQ 2 completely different headphones to sound the same. Given infinite adjustability and perfect knowledge about a given response curve, I would assume that such a thing is possible.

 

But to me, it is always better to climb up the quality ladder when possible. It is much easier to tame frequencies than to "boost" them without causing distortion or exceeding a driver's physical limits. If you start from a very good sound, it is a lot easier to get to a "great sound" with some tweaking. Also, if you ever take the phones away from your EQ, say, to your friend's house or some other room, you give up all hard work. Great sound right out of the box is always awesomer. The superior physical limit of one driver over another will tend to provide greater SPL potential and headroom as well, which has a value in some applications.

 

But given all the other variables - source material, electronics, listening environment / conditions and so on, I am not sure you can really solve all the possible issues with EQ alone - it is just one tool. In a car environment, for example, bass response is improved less through EQ (in my opinion), and more from careful positioning, time alignment, and phase. You can't get a "tight bass" from a massive sub 7 feet away from you and a midbass / tweeter 20 inches from your ear. You just need correction for that that does not come from an EQ.

 

Also, I am not sure any amount of EQ on a 30-40mm driver can replace the massive diaphrapms in the Planars. Surface area advantage will tend to produce a sound that I don't think is replicated by EQ. Easiest comparison is to think of any system you can with 5-8 inch drivers played at max volumes versus another systems that uses 10-15 inch drivers. Or, better yet, put a 3 inch shelf system next to full size towers. In theory, they could sound the same up to a certain SPL with perfect EQ treatment, but I would put $1,000,000 on the full size towers to provide that sound in 10 rooms of different sizes at a greater overall volume. Plus - you would be more likely to enjoy the physical fun of your hair tingling, hair moving, and ears feeling like they are getting stuffed. Moving more air is moving more air.

 

Finally, Headphones are an utterly different approach to sound that arguably, renders my previous examples irrelevant. A big problem is that the optimal frequency response of headphones is still mostly unknown - since humans perceive headphone sound differently from cans than from speakers. The "flat response" generally desirable from speakers does not hold for headphones. Genetic variations in hearing and user preferences will also play a role. Have you ever just hated the sound of a particular instrument for example? Sometimes I hate trumpets and other brass instruments, but this sure won't stop the world from making them. Anyway.

Thanks, great info there! May have to visit the sound science forums sometime.

Just got a pair of these and I love 'em. Anyone using a Solid State (non tube)  Amp you would recommend for the HE400? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareyb 

Just got a pair of these and I love 'em. Anyone using a Solid State (non tube)  Amp you would recommend for the HE400? 

There's plenty suggested in this thread. 

Schiit Asgard 1 or 2

O2

Matrix M-stage

Fiio E17

Schiit Magni

And other's that escape me atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaver316 

There's plenty suggested in this thread. 

 

Schiit Asgard 1 or 2

O2

Matrix M-stage

Fiio E17

Schiit Magni

 

And other's that escape me atm.

As well as:

FiiO E9

Audio-GD stuff

mini-X a-100

I went from E17, to E9 and my raod ended on the Asgard  (i think 1). At this point i no longer wish to improve que quality by the Amp, maybe change the E17 for another DAC like the Bifrost, but it will have to wait till my wallet regenerates a bit.

Ohnoitztotoro When it comes to Volume, the HE-400 get good volume of an E17 (gain 12 volume 50+ that is), but at that point i belive some sound quality is lost.

I tried the E9, and while it was Loud, it felt a bit empty (dont know how else to describe it). However with the Asgard, the sound synergy really worked great.

I havent tried the amp you mention, but id suggest you check if you can try something like the asgard in a store to see if your amp is the reason you hear lower volumes, or if its the HP itself.

On a side note, as far as i know, if something sounds louder at the same volume (assuming same eficiency, etc), means the sound quality is worse.

But i belive it has nothing to do with that, probably the HD650 are easier to drive for your particular amplifier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaver316 

 

There's plenty suggested in this thread. 

 

Schiit Asgard 1 or 2

O2

Matrix M-stage

Fiio E17

Schiit Magni

 

And other's that escape me atm.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinQY 

As well as:

FiiO E9

Audio-GD stuff

mini-X a-100

and others of lesser importance (not serious here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by catspaw 

I went from E17, to E9 and my raod ended on the Asgard  (i think 1). At this point i no longer wish to improve que quality by the Amp, maybe change the E17 for another DAC like the Bifrost, but it will have to wait till my wallet regenerates a bit.

 

Ohnoitztotoro When it comes to Volume, the HE-400 get good volume of an E17 (gain 12 volume 50+ that is), but at that point i belive some sound quality is lost.

 

I tried the E9, and while it was Loud, it felt a bit empty (dont know how else to describe it). However with the Asgard, the sound synergy really worked great.

 

I havent tried the amp you mention, but id suggest you check if you can try something like the asgard in a store to see if your amp is the reason you hear lower volumes, or if its the HP itself.

On a side note, as far as i know, if something sounds louder at the same volume (assuming same eficiency, etc), means the sound quality is worse.

But i belive it has nothing to do with that, probably the HD650 are easier to drive for your particular amplifier.

 

I am currently using an E17 as well, and it sounds pretty good but I'm getting tired of having to charge it all the time. Is their line of Desktop Amps any good? I think my E17 can dock with one of them and create a DAC/AMP combo. So that could come in handy.... I've just always wondered how  FiiO might sound compared to the more expensive units out there.

Gives one pause, but it sure would be convenient and I like the small form factor and the fact that it doesn't generate much heat (so says Amazon). It's going Tailgating with us a lot, so I can't get something that gets too hot and I've read the Asgards aren't known for their cool operation... Are any of the others mentioned in this thread small in form factor and run cool?