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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 490

post #7336 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The bass stays basically the exact same as with pleathers. Don't know with the mods and J$ though. People shouldn't expect basshead cans with the HE-400. They are however quite impactful and natural sounding bass. If you want emphasized bass, best go with the millions of dynamic headphones that do just that.

That being said, the HE-400 with some bass boosting is pretty hard to beat... there's a lot of potential there if you wanna go that route. The HE-400 with the E17 on +4 bass was incredibly awesome.

I don't think I even came close to implying that I was a basshead, expected the HE-400 to be basshead cans, or that I wanted the bass to be the emphasis. I love the HE-400, my favorite headphones by far, was just wondering about that specific instance. So thank you for your insights on that instance, of course.

 

I'll try the bass boost on my E17 or maybe try some EQing for the first time ever with the M&M. That will be interesting, not sure where to start though.

post #7337 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Yeah, like what's your setup?

 

Sorry I should've mentioned that to start with lol. As far as setup, I don't have a DAC yet. So I just have my little dot MK II amp plugged into my desktop PC and using the headphone through the amp. I'm really new so I am slowly getting the pieces together. Currently I'm just trying to find a good pair of headphones (or combo) that I like.  Any improvements in things like amps and dac will most likely come a little later. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

Well it may actually be the amp. How far up is the volume on the amp?

I use the Little Dot MKII amp. When I was listening to the he400's last night it was up all the way to the 1 o'clock which made it pretty loud but if I use my HD650 with the amp, that equivalent volume level would be 10-11 o' clock on the knob. 

post #7338 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjames View Post

I don't think I even came close to implying that I was a basshead, expected the HE-400 to be basshead cans, or that I wanted the bass to be the emphasis. I love the HE-400, my favorite headphones by far, was just wondering about that specific instance. So thank you for your insights on that instance, of course.

I'll try the bass boost on my E17 or maybe try some EQing for the first time ever with the M&M. That will be interesting, not sure where to start though.

Notice I said PEOPLE. I didn't even come close to implying anything about you directly. It was a generalization, that if people want lots of bass, they look elsewhere.

And you wanting more bass impact is essentially wanting bass emphasis in comparison to what it is right now, which is actually emphasized bass as is. So yes, that's what people would gather from your post.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 2/14/13 at 2:44pm
post #7339 of 17701

One of the many nice things about the HE400s is that they EQ very nicely. I had my E17 at +8 Bass last night with some SERIOUS dubstep tracks and they never missed a beat.  They weren't that far off from my Pro 900s only with far superior mids and highs. They definitely satisfy the "Basshead" in me. wink.gif

post #7340 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Notice I said PEOPLE. I didn't even come close to implying anything about you directly. It was a generalization, that if people want lots of bass, they look elsewhere.

And you wanting more bass impact is essentially wanting bass emphasis in comparison to what it is right now, which is actually emphasized bass as is. So yes, that's what people would gather from your post.

You were responding to me, two and two together, easy to see, etc. But anyway, like I said, I thanked you for your post, I was just clarifying my position. And no, I do not want the bass to be the emphasis of the sound - for the second time. Thanks

post #7341 of 17701

Even if you're a basshead (and have an EQ at your disposal), I'd still recommend the HE-400.. most likely over any open, full sized phone it directly competes with.  The HE-400 EQ's amazingly well.. so instead of being stuck with some other overly warm, slow, bassy, 'one tricky pony' 'basshead' phone, get the HE-400 and intricately trick out the bass to your heart's desire.  Some people like lots of midbass.. others go for lots of subbass.. the HE-400 can boost any of it with the best of them and not sound strained or muddied in the slightest.  Plus you'll get the mesmerizing speed the planar driver offers.. something very few, if any, (pure) dynamic drivers are able to match.

post #7342 of 17701

Hmm, seeing some posts about the HE-400 and it's EQ potential. Wish I would have tried that before I sent them out frown.gif

 

I'm one who isn't very fond of EQ'ing higher end headphones. I always think it'll degrade it's overall sound somehow. Even if that was so, I guess that's better than being stuck with a signature that doesn't quite match up to your preference.

post #7343 of 17701
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

Hmm, seeing some posts about the HE-400 and it's EQ potential. Wish I would have tried that before I sent them out frown.gif

 

I'm one who isn't very fond of EQ'ing higher end headphones. I always think it'll degrade it's overall sound somehow. Even if that was so, I guess that's better than being stuck with a signature that doesn't quite match up to your preference.

 

I'm the same way.. in fact, I don't EQ at all.. regardless of the price/tier of the phone.. guess it's the purist snob in me.. but I've also never felt the desire to EQ a phone I've bought cause I typically do a ton of reading/research before buying and in most cases, have a very good idea of what I'm going to hear.. and I've rarely been surprised (as far as tuning/fq curve is concerned).  I played around with EQing the HE-400, briefly, just to see how far you could push it before it distorted or sounded incoherent.. I was very impressed with it's versatility & composure even when wildly tuned.. of course it sounded wacky at times.. but that was exclusively due to the EQing more than any technical shortcomings of the drivers themselves.

post #7344 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

I'm the same way.. in fact, I don't EQ at all.. regardless of the price/tier of the phone.. guess it's the purist snob in me.. but I've also never felt the desire to EQ a phone I've bought cause I typically do a ton of reading/research before buying and in most cases, have a very good idea of what I'm going to hear.. and I've rarely been surprised (as far as tuning/fq curve is concerned).  I played around with EQing the HE-400, briefly, just to see how far you could push it before it distorted or sounded incoherent.. I was very impressed with it's versatility & composure even when wildly tuned.. of course it sounded wacky at times.. but that was exclusively due to the EQing more than any technical shortcomings of the drivers themselves.

 

Hmm. I definitely couldn't say I'm the same. Each sound is a partial surprise to me. It's like eating those boxed chocolate, hoping you won't get that toothpaste filled one!

 

I generally like to "buy low, EQ high", unless I can find a higher end headphone that really nails the sound without the need for any sort of digital modulation. But whenever I feel the need to EQ something higher tiered, I wonder why I simply didn't buy lower and EQ up to that point in the same place. I guess it can be argued that you are "working with more potential", and I'm not sure if that's partially destroyed in the process or not. Generally though, like you mentioned, I'm more of a purist with more expensive gear. HE-400 is no exception.

post #7345 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

 

Hmm. I definitely couldn't say I'm the same. Each sound is a partial surprise to me. It's like eating those boxed chocolate, hoping you won't get that toothpaste filled one!

 

I generally like to "buy low, EQ high", unless I can find a higher end headphone that really nails the sound without the need for any sort of digital modulation. But whenever I feel the need to EQ something higher tiered, I wonder why I simply didn't buy lower and EQ up to that point in the same place. I guess it can be argued that you are "working with more potential", and I'm not sure if that's partially destroyed in the process or not. Generally though, like you mentioned, I'm more of a purist with more expensive gear. HE-400 is no exception.


Over in sound science there is a debate about whether or not you can, in theory, EQ 2 completely different headphones to sound the same. Given infinite adjustability and perfect knowledge about a given response curve, I would assume that such a thing is possible.

 

But to me, it is always better to climb up the quality ladder when possible. It is much easier to tame frequencies than to "boost" them without causing distortion or exceeding a driver's physical limits. If you start from a very good sound, it is a lot easier to get to a "great sound" with some tweaking. Also, if you ever take the phones away from your EQ, say, to your friend's house or some other room, you give up all hard work. Great sound right out of the box is always awesomer. The superior physical limit of one driver over another will tend to provide greater SPL potential and headroom as well, which has a value in some applications.

 

But given all the other variables - source material, electronics, listening environment / conditions and so on, I am not sure you can really solve all the possible issues with EQ alone - it is just one tool. In a car environment, for example, bass response is improved less through EQ (in my opinion), and more from careful positioning, time alignment, and phase. You can't get a "tight bass" from a massive sub 7 feet away from you and a midbass / tweeter 20 inches from your ear. You just need correction for that that does not come from an EQ.

 

Also, I am not sure any amount of EQ on a 30-40mm driver can replace the massive diaphrapms in the Planars. Surface area advantage will tend to produce a sound that I don't think is replicated by EQ. Easiest comparison is to think of any system you can with 5-8 inch drivers played at max volumes versus another systems that uses 10-15 inch drivers. Or, better yet, put a 3 inch shelf system next to full size towers. In theory, they could sound the same up to a certain SPL with perfect EQ treatment, but I would put $1,000,000 on the full size towers to provide that sound in 10 rooms of different sizes at a greater overall volume. Plus - you would be more likely to enjoy the physical fun of your hair tingling, hair moving, and ears feeling like they are getting stuffed. Moving more air is moving more air.

 

Finally, Headphones are an utterly different approach to sound that arguably, renders my previous examples irrelevant. A big problem is that the optimal frequency response of headphones is still mostly unknown - since humans perceive headphone sound differently from cans than from speakers. The "flat response" generally desirable from speakers does not hold for headphones. Genetic variations in hearing and user preferences will also play a role. Have you ever just hated the sound of a particular instrument for example? Sometimes I hate trumpets and other brass instruments, but this sure won't stop the world from making them. Anyway.

post #7346 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The bass stays basically the exact same as with pleathers.

Ehh, I would disagree.  I found noticeable improvement in the bass area when I swapped to the velours.  The pleathers muted certain bass frequencies for me, notably the sub bass.  Maybe it fit my head differently?

post #7347 of 17701
I dunno. Going off the graphs and what I personally experienced, the biggest change was clarity in the mids. The bass was as full with and without velours, fwih.
post #7348 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post


Over in sound science there is a debate about whether or not you can, in theory, EQ 2 completely different headphones to sound the same. Given infinite adjustability and perfect knowledge about a given response curve, I would assume that such a thing is possible.

 

But to me, it is always better to climb up the quality ladder when possible. It is much easier to tame frequencies than to "boost" them without causing distortion or exceeding a driver's physical limits. If you start from a very good sound, it is a lot easier to get to a "great sound" with some tweaking. Also, if you ever take the phones away from your EQ, say, to your friend's house or some other room, you give up all hard work. Great sound right out of the box is always awesomer. The superior physical limit of one driver over another will tend to provide greater SPL potential and headroom as well, which has a value in some applications.

 

But given all the other variables - source material, electronics, listening environment / conditions and so on, I am not sure you can really solve all the possible issues with EQ alone - it is just one tool. In a car environment, for example, bass response is improved less through EQ (in my opinion), and more from careful positioning, time alignment, and phase. You can't get a "tight bass" from a massive sub 7 feet away from you and a midbass / tweeter 20 inches from your ear. You just need correction for that that does not come from an EQ.

 

Also, I am not sure any amount of EQ on a 30-40mm driver can replace the massive diaphrapms in the Planars. Surface area advantage will tend to produce a sound that I don't think is replicated by EQ. Easiest comparison is to think of any system you can with 5-8 inch drivers played at max volumes versus another systems that uses 10-15 inch drivers. Or, better yet, put a 3 inch shelf system next to full size towers. In theory, they could sound the same up to a certain SPL with perfect EQ treatment, but I would put $1,000,000 on the full size towers to provide that sound in 10 rooms of different sizes at a greater overall volume. Plus - you would be more likely to enjoy the physical fun of your hair tingling, hair moving, and ears feeling like they are getting stuffed. Moving more air is moving more air.

 

Finally, Headphones are an utterly different approach to sound that arguably, renders my previous examples irrelevant. A big problem is that the optimal frequency response of headphones is still mostly unknown - since humans perceive headphone sound differently from cans than from speakers. The "flat response" generally desirable from speakers does not hold for headphones. Genetic variations in hearing and user preferences will also play a role. Have you ever just hated the sound of a particular instrument for example? Sometimes I hate trumpets and other brass instruments, but this sure won't stop the world from making them. Anyway.

 

Thanks, great info there! May have to visit the sound science forums sometime. tongue.gif

post #7349 of 17701

Just got a pair of these and I love 'em. Anyone using a Solid State (non tube)  Amp you would recommend for the HE400? 

post #7350 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post

Just got a pair of these and I love 'em. Anyone using a Solid State (non tube)  Amp you would recommend for the HE400? 

 

There's plenty suggested in this thread. 

 

Schiit Asgard 1 or 2

O2

Matrix M-stage

Fiio E17

Schiit Magni

 

And other's that escape me atm.

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