**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 472

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

Please point me in a place where I can find a $500 system that sounds better than a $1000 - $1500 system.  I'm not being funny.  I would like to know.

Next time you pass through my area, let me know.  You can hear my $1,400 2.1 music system that I was able to cobble together by carefully selecting used components.

• Yamaha AS-700 Integrated Amplifier
• Monitor Audio RS-6 Speakers
• SVS 20-39 PCi Subwoofer
• Logitech Squeezebox Digital Music player with Burr-Brown DAC

I bought all of the gear at half the cost of new.  However, when the bass has sucked the air out of your lungs and you're getting a migraine from the SVS pounding so hard, I think you'll agree that I was awfully careful during my shopping mission to get the biggest bang for the buck.     

Quote:

Originally Posted by wje 

 

Next time you pass through my area, let me know.  You can hear my $1,400 2.1 music system that I was able to cobble together by carefully selecting used components.

 

• Yamaha AS-700 Integrated Amplifier
• Monitor Audio RS-6 Speakers
• SVS 20-39 PCi Subwoofer
• Logitech Squeezebox Digital Music player with Burr-Brown DAC

 

I bought all of the gear at half the cost of new.  However, when the bass has sucked the air out of your lungs and you're getting a migraine from the SVS pounding so hard, I think you'll agree that I was awfully careful during my shopping mission to get the biggest bang for the buck.     

I sure will W..  We should setup a little mini meet..

I need to shop where you shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wje 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Interesting stuff.  Also, today, I was able to exchange my Fiio D03K (silver RCA edition) out for what is possibly the newer D03K (Gold RCA edition) from the guy who I purchased the original from.  I tried to give him a $10.00 for his efforts, but he refused to take it.  I told him that I was running a series of tests on lower-cost DACs and my inital approach was that I wanted to buy a 2nd Fiio DAC that he had for sale.  He was the one nice enough to offer to meet up with me to handle the exchange.

 

I'll pull the hood off of the DAC tonight to confirm it has the Cirrus chip in it. If so, I'll post, or add my impressions to the original listing that I wrote up earlier this week.

 

I still have to say though, I really do like the beauty of the Burr-Brown offerings.  Granted, they are getting a bit dated, but Burr-Brown had a large share of the market 5, 6 or 7 years ago.  I'm assuming a bit less today under T.I. though - or, they might not be advertised as much.  The upper end Yamaha receivers, for the most part would use Burr-Brown DAC chips for the assembly of their DACs on the receivers and they would publish that information in their literature.  I believe the same is true for Pioneer Elite - or, it was a few years back.

Actually I believe Yamaha use them in ALL their current receivers. I have an entry level one and the 24/192 Burr-Brown DAC is in there.

I scoped the other high end models and they use the same Burr-Brown DAC as well.

I will give the receiver a try with my HE-6 and report back on how it compares with the Mini-X/NFB 3.32

Still want those objective measurements peeps.

The high-end audio business usually only stays as such thanks to their refusal to provide any actual information on system specs and actual performance. They rely on "subjectivity" because it lets them take advantage of people's emotional, irrational impulses. Yes, there are numerous variables in the "real world", but objective measures at least start the process of making a fair comparison and assessment. The only people that "win" on subjectivity are manufacturers, not consumers.

When possible, I like information, not opinion. Even if I am personally too ignorant to make best use of it, I want it. I doubt a single one of you would purchase a car that had been reviewed, a million times, to have "awesome performance", or "great gas mileage", if there was one on the lot that said it would hit 100 mph in 10 seconds and achieve 60 mpg on the highway. Why spend $25k on subjectivity when you have something known for the same price? Can specs/manufacturers lie? Absolutely. But lets get serious here. My money is too precious to me to waste on gear full of claim but which doesn't deliver the goods.

I am not into "head modding", but I do "mod" cars. YES, you should make a baffle. YES, you should apply sound deadening strategically if possible. YES, you should invest in time alignment. YES, a thicker power wire / high quality interconnect should improve power delivery and noise rejection. YES, you will "hear the difference", but NO, the difference is not likely to be great depending on a number of factories. NO you shouldn't spend $1,000 dollars more on aforementioned mods. The lessons I've learned boil down to choosing the power you need, and the best speakers you can afford. Then pray that you have a good acoustics in your car.

So lets get some measurements already! I am so curious to see how the HE's may have been affected. I get that you can't get all the information from something like frequency response, but it will sure back up your street cred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

 

 

I sure will W..  We should setup a little mini meet..

 

I need to shop where you shop.

Count me in!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMateoHead 

Still want those objective measurements peeps.

 

The high-end audio business usually only stays as such thanks to their refusal to provide any actual information on system specs and actual performance. They rely on "subjectivity" because it lets them take advantage of people's emotional, irrational impulses. Yes, there are numerous variables in the "real world", but objective measures at least start the process of making a fair comparison and assessment. The only people that "win" on subjectivity are manufacturers, not consumers.

 

You are 100% correct.  Granted, that wasn't just my opinion necessarily that I stated.  However, if you'll recall, a few years back NwAvGuy used to be a member here.  It was shortly before the release of his Objective 2 amplifier spec.  As it happens, NwAvGuy, was quite creative and testing capabilities of equipment to include output, crosstalk, distortion and all kinds of stuff like that.  The problem, though, happened to be that he was publishing the results on the site.  Quite a number of pieces reviewed were items that were products of the sponsors on the forum here.  I believe the moderators / admins made a request to have him stop his efforts.  However, the outcome happened to be that he was eventually banned.

Boutique equipment often gets produced and marketed to be sold as specialty equipment.  I think that this process has essentially worked up until the past several years when sites like Ebay started to have goods appear from China being posted for sale and individuals could go directly to the manufacturers or distributors located in China, place the order and get their item in about 14 days.  While I'm quite sure the boutique market is still probably doing OK, I think we have to realize that what is going on is the transactions via Ebay or Alibaba.com really have to be doing some erosion to the higher end market, or the market where there were a lot of "middle men" who would all receive a cut as the product passed through their supply channels.

Also, with the recent DAC-a-thon that I've been involved with regarding sub-$100 DACs, I've found some "gems" and I've also come across some "lemons" too.  However, if I were in the $500+ DAC market, and came across some "lemons" where the sound didn't have a nice flow to it, I know I'd be awfully upset and feel pretty sour about such a purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

^^ Okay, so speaking NWAvGuy, you brought it up, and dac-athons...to no one's surprise I should think the odac tested very well against the bifrost when paired with the lyr and e09.  At a third the cost I'd be hard pressed to spend $450 on the bifrost w/usb. I bought and odac from Joe at Audio Poutine which has built in RCA jacks. You can have custom panels, colors, logos ect. For around the $500 mark...a  used lyr with odac is an incredible bargain for a crazy good setup. 

 

Matt,

Very nice.  I like the offerings of Audio Poutine such as the RCA outputs, etc.  While essentially the same as the other oDAC offerings, I just love the RCA connections that much better.

Now, if the rest of you knew what poutine was, you'd probably die - or, your cholesterol numbers would probably jump 100 points just thinking about it.  However, during an extended training trip to Ontario some years back, I was able to enjoy some of that delicous dish.  Nothing beats a nice bowl of french fries, which is then covered in melted white cheese and smothered with gravy.  Yes, that is poutine.  Relatively simple to make.  I think I've just made myself hungry.

Unfortunately, Audio Poutine is just way too disorganized for me. I asked some questions on FB, he only answered one and made things more unclear, the Google Doc is weird and I don't understand it, and he did not reply to my emails. So I went with the M&M instead

Also yeah I want a Lyr, but I have no idea what to do for a DAC. $450 for a Bifrost just seems insane to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

 

I believe that jddslabs now offers an odac with rca jacks. If you don't want the odac from Joe, then I'd go with jdslabs. 

 

my2c

I just don't know if the modi + lyr is a great combination. I'd feel like I'm doing the Lyr a disservice, and I know that the ODAC isn't that much better than a Modi. I guess I'm looking for something between $150 and the $450 of the Bifrost (USB is a must)

Got my J$ pads today (thanks Wje, got here much quicker than I expected).  Have had them on my head for 45 minutes and the comfort is 100% improved over the velours. Sound seems to have some of the best qualities of both the velours and the Jerg pads. Mids step forward like the Jergs, bass is slightly more prominent than the Jergs. Top end retains the "almost too much" energy of the pleathers.

All in all they seem to be a near perfect combo of comfort, sound quality, and aesthetics.