**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 471

Because I'm not a strictly "in objective we trust" person I guess; I respect and value the subjective impressions from people who actually try to listen with as little bias as possible, especially those who have versed enough impressions for me to have a fairly good understanding of their hearing acuity and preferences.

Don't judge me bro.

(Also I do agree that measurements, even fairly advanced stuff like CSDs, are still far from enough to show certain critical aspects of sound; they are not flawed, just insufficient IMO)

I would definitely be interested in seeing J$ vs jergpad vs velour graphs.

For some people we might seem crazy. People that don't enjoy the finer things in life, and don't care one bit about sound quality.

My current audio setup is worth less than 600 euros. I've heard full sized audio systems worth double that, but didn't sound as good.

I'd say about one in ten grown men have a pretty expensive sound system that far exceeds my current setup. But that is considered very normal...

I would too.  But after all the J$ Beyerdynamic pads have been sold, and people have passed the statute of limitations with regards to being able to return them. 

I can never understand this.

Every system that I've every heard that was double the cost - at the end of the day did sound better IMO. Now, did it sound like it should cost double the price - no. Case in point LCD-2 vs. LCD-3. Are the LCD-3s worth the 1K difference - No, not to me. However, IMO they do sound better.

^^ This is why I always to try buy used gear. For example, the lyr is a really good bargain at $450 IMO, but an outstanding value at what I paid used. And yes, I know that you forfeit the warranty, but as they are built like tanks and the repairs are not expensive it's certainly worth it for me to buy used. 

I'm surprised there are still some left, I remember worrying about being able to get some about a month ago.

Until measurements are posted I'm going to assume that they have a completely smoothed out frequency response with a near instant decay in the CSD.

So if I take my system and embed it with diamonds is it gonna sound better?

People selling hifi equipment aren't following a whole lot of pricing standards. The correlation between sound and price isn't always going to be there.

Get Real - on the bold.

Please point me in a place where I can find a $500 system that sounds better than a $1000 - $1500 system.  I'm not being funny.  I would like to know.

Now the O2 will put up a fight with a lot of amps.  But I'll most likely like the amp that cost 2 times more.

I can never understand this.

Every system that I've every heard that was double the cost - at the end of the day did sound better IMO.  Now, did it sound like it should cost double the price - no.  Case in point LCD-2 vs. LCD-3.  Are the LCD-3s worth the 1K difference - No, not to me.  However, IMO they do sound better.

I was talking about a full sized sound system, like speakers and stuff :p

I don't think it's even weird that headphones can sound better than speakers way below their price. The production costs are way higher in speakers than in headphones (I'm assuming this). Also, speakers will always be limited to the acoustics of the enterior of the house.

I can never understand this.

Every system that I've every heard that was double the cost - at the end of the day did sound better IMO.  Now, did it sound like it should cost double the price - no.  Case in point LCD-2 vs. LCD-3.  Are the LCD-3s worth the 1K difference - No, not to me.  However, IMO they do sound better.

I can't say that's been the case for me.

I have a Stax SR-Lambda (with rebuilt drivers, admittedly) that I've been fond of, but I wasn't expecting to prefer it outright to the SR-202 and SR-303, which certainly cost more than their Normal bias grandfather does on the used market these days. They sounded different-kind of like the HE-400, in hindsight-but not better. Especially not in the midrange, which I prioritize most.

It could be that I'm just used to that old Lambda's way of presenting sound, but it does vocals in a way I've heard no other headphone do; it really seems like the vocalist is actually there, singing to you, totally natural and all. It doesn't seem like there's this raspy texture all over their voices that shatters the illusion, which has happened with many of the other higher-end headphones I've listened to.

How much of an expensive headphone's sound is expectation bias based on the price and its reputation, anyway?

Regardless, you may find that what you want out of a headphone isn't necessarily what the more expensive models are going to give you. Cost doesn't equal value to your ears.

And the time has come for another novella from wje.  I'll apologize in advance for the extensive content, but I felt I had to write as much as I did to be able to relay my experience.

Some DAC impressions of recent experience.

These impressions are based on the use of my HD-600 and HD-650 Sennheisers.  I will update accordingly, after spending time with the HE-400s this coming weekend going through a similar exercise.

DACS were tested with a Schiit Magni amplifier, and a Fiio E9 amplifier.  The DACs tested were: FiiO D03K (early edition with the silver RCA connectors), FiiO E7 (docked on the E9), and the Muse Mini DAC, paired with both the Schiit Magni and FiiO E9 amplifiers.  The Schiit Modi was previously owned, but never tried with these headphones, so too many comments can’t be applied, but the general sound signature will be mentioned in the below content.

Wolfson chip-based DACs.  In testing both the D03K and the E7, I was able to detect what initially appeared to be somewhat detailed level of performance.  However, after using for extended periods, the sound just became a bit more strident than what would appeal to me for many longer listening sessions.  I quickly tired of the extra detail that was being handed to me.  As to bass punch, I felt the Wolfson chip-based DACs were as capable as any other DAC that I’ve tried and similar response in the mid-frequencies, too.  Additionally, while not tested, the FiiO E17 an newest E07K are built around the same Wolfson DAC chip.  The D07K was based on a different variant of the Wolfson DAC chip and happed to be purchased locally off of Craigslist from a guy who replacing all the DACs in his 4-zone music system in his home.  He had a bag of the D03K DACs (4 of them, actually) and I picked the silver RCA version, known as version #1.  The later version has a DAC chip by Cirrus Logic.  Being that he might still have the other DACs, I should opt for one of the newer gold ones, so I can test the sound signature of that variant, too.  Hmm … does this ever really end?

I’m not completely writing off Wolfson at the this point as I’ve heard their offerings in two of the amp DAC combos that I owned by Audio-GD.  However, in those cases, the Audio-GD did suffer from some upper and lower frequency roll off, which has been noted by others too.

Now, for the Muse Mini DAC.  It is built around the Burr-Brown PCM2704 chip.  This chip is a bit long in the tooth and has been around for the past 6 or so years.  Possibly longer.  This variant provided a well-balanced sound that didn’t push those audible upper-frequency details that became strident over longer listening periods.  My other experience with the Burr-Brown DACs has also been with my (3) Squeezebox devices.  I’ve never once noticed any sounds that they’ve produced that were overly-emphasized in one frequency zone or another.  This DAC currently sells for about $30 on Amazon.

As to the amps I used.  The Schiit Magni and the FiiO E9 amps, they both performed relatively on par with each other and the tested DACs.  The DAC signatures noted were apparent with both amplifiers.  However, if I were to have to give the nod here, it would be for the Schiit Magni.  While on par, I still felt that the Magni just had a slightly more refined sound.  Again, this was just my sound and listening observations as I experienced.  I think in the E9, it happens to be more largely mass-produced and possibly, component variations that are internally utilized could periodically change from time-to-time based on availability.  Since Schiit is assembled on a smaller scale here in the U.S., it is quite possible that more attention can be paid towards the components that are purchased, and I’d like to believe that there might be some more consistency in what their components their amps are built upon.

Possibly, again, at another point in the future.  The Modi DAC was only sold so I could buy another item from the forum I had my eye on.  Being that I had the Muse Mini DAC, I put that into use and sold the Modi for the time being.

Finally, I feel as though a comment should be applied on the Shiit Modi DAC.  While not tested with any amps other than the Schiit Magni and only with my HifiMAN HE-400s, it provided a nice, even sound with the frequency ranges distributed without one range overpowering the other.  I just wish I could have had it for this comparison.

I wonder if this is only an issue with the AMP/DAC combos... I believe I read somewhere it only applied on the combo units....

I have the NFB 3.32 which sports two WM8741 chips and I cant say they are rolled off. However, I agree with the "overly detailed highs information" it can be slightly overpowering at times, still with a HP and amp which are very neutral and transparent there is hardly anything not to like and/or emphasized :) Save for a hint of brightness (not necessarily bad though)