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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 432

post #6466 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

I know I know, sorry for the scars I incurred on you Wayne (you were probably the only one who actually took the time to read my original hurtful post 2 days ago).

 

Seriously though, I was contemplating real hard earlier today in selling these HE400s because they (with vintage HFM velours on) sounded downright sibilant and U-shaped low-fi beside my HE500s (which had the jergpads on); then as a last ditch effort I swapped the jergpads back onto the HE400s and I've been listening to these instead of the HE500s for the past hour or two.

 

I ain't even trying to promote my mod, every HE400 owner owes their HE400s this mod. It's laughable how downright unlistenable the HE400s sound with other pads relatively speaking.


I'd be willing to buy a version of your jerg pads to test out.

post #6467 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

Yes, I must say all that had me confused too. I was assured the velours were the second coming; I tried them, couldn't really hear a difference, or at least not an improvement, and was told my hearing was low fi. Then suddenly everyone was listening to the pleathers again, and modding them, and modding them again, and experimenting with different numbers of holes (no one seemed to know quite the right number or exact placement)--I guess by then the velours had been stuffed in everyone's bottom drawer. I'm still confused. Meantime I'm still A/Bing the HE-500 (unmodified) with the DT880Pro and still can't make up my mind. How's that for low-fi hearing?

 

You know, just as an afterthought I really can't be bothered with mods. What usually happens is I undertake them with great expectations (touch of Dickens there), they don't really make enough difference to turn the tide, I decide to sell the headphones in question except by now their resale value is affected by all the mods. I think I'll just put up with what the designer intended me to have and leave it at that. 

 

You may not be able to hear it, however the difference of velours vs pleathers is definitely there and measurable. 

 

Not trying to discredit anything you've said, but maybe you do have 'low-fi' hearing. tongue.gif I feel like I can tell the difference between the pads. I can't stand pleather so I can't say anything regarding the jergmods.

post #6468 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

Yes, I must say all that had me confused too. I was assured the velours were the second coming; I tried them, couldn't really hear a difference, or at least not an improvement, and was told my hearing was low fi. Then suddenly everyone was listening to the pleathers again, and modding them, and modding them again, and experimenting with different numbers of holes (no one seemed to know quite the right number or exact placement)--I guess by then the velours had been stuffed in everyone's bottom drawer. I'm still confused. Meantime I'm still A/Bing the HE-500 (unmodified) with the DT880Pro and still can't make up my mind. How's that for low-fi hearing?

 

You know, just as an afterthought I really can't be bothered with mods. What usually happens is I undertake them with great expectations (touch of Dickens there), they don't really make enough difference to turn the tide, I decide to sell the headphones in question except by now their resale value is affected by all the mods. I think I'll just put up with what the designer intended me to have and leave it at that. 

If you couldn't tell the sound difference between velour pads and pleather pads on HE400 or HE500, then it wouldn't surprise me if earpad mods, or other pads like J$ beyer pads or LCD2/3 pads would still sound the same to you.

 

Upon critical listening, I could discern very significant difference in tonality between the two types of stock Hifiman pads, because of the sum of differences in depth/foam type/outer material/dust screen density, as such I was able to compare and contrast the other types of pads as well as attempting to mod the pleather pads myself, with good feedback from my critical listening comparisons.

 

I think it's not that everything sounds the same, just that you could not perceive those differences while others could. (no offense of course, different people listen differently)

post #6469 of 18332

I have a pair of dissected jergpads here, only waiting to be re-assembled. I took it apart to fix it(make more holes), but got too lazy to finish the job.

 

I remember that after a long session of critical listening, i found that i liked the velours more(that's why i disassembled the jergpads in first place).

 

I'll try hearing it again later to see if there were any significant changes, though i don't think i'll use it, even if i like its sound more than the velours, since i suffer from the same problem as MLE(There's a reason people arround here call the city "Hell" de Janeiro devil_face.gif)


Edited by Okamoto - 1/28/13 at 11:21pm
post #6470 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 
It's laughable how downright unlistenable the HE400s sound with other pads relatively speaking.

 

lol ok

post #6471 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggahwhat View Post

 

lol ok

Keywords "relatively speaking" rolleyes.gif

 

Kinda like how M50's might sound ok on their own, but once you've grown used to HE400s, the M50's sound terrible and unlistenable in comparison, even though you might have been enjoying them a lot before you ever acquired HE400s. Same thing here.


Edited by jerg - 1/28/13 at 11:29pm
post #6472 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Nicely summed up with my feelings on this whole thing.

As for the DT880 Pro vs HE-500, it's understandable. There are times when the supposedly technically inferior headphone will resonate more with a person. I'd certainly take a Skullcandy SLYR (damn good headset for the money) over a K701.

I really can't be arsed with mods myself other than the quick velour swap if mostly because I just can't stand pleathers, and they do bring out the mids and clarity more, though at the expense of warmth and fullness. Like I said, there are trade offs. I don't believe in magical fixes.

Most of the more serious headfi'ers dont believe in magical fixes also..me for instance first wanna try/hear/feel/do it before believing..and only then say anything about it or believe the claim... But i do believe we all listen differently ... And are in different geographical locations and are all different kind of people..those are a few of the variables which defines who we are as music listening lovers... I am very cautious in what i hear and read....and most of times check or try anything ( if possible ofcourse) at least once..and then accept it or i can be very ..well.. Resolute if imho its not what it looks like...IMHO... Some people here know how direct and assertive i can be here in my posts biggrin.gif
I am on my way trying the jergpad..with an open mind..but its so much work! wink.gif ..i dont believe it will magically turn the he500 into the he6 killing machine.. I even hope it will be better then the velours i love so much..we have to see.. tongue.gif
post #6473 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Most of the more serious headfi'ers dont believe in magical fixes also..me for instance first wanna try/hear/feel/do it before believing..and only then say anything about it or believe the claim... But i do believe we all listen differently ... And are in different geographical locations and are all different kind of people..those are a few of the variables which defines who we are as music listening lovers... I am very cautious in what i hear and read....and most of times check or try anything ( if possible ofcourse) at least once..and then accept it or i can be very ..well.. Resolute if imho its not what it looks like...IMHO... Some people here know how direct and assertive i can be here in my posts biggrin.gif
I am on my way trying the jergpad..with an open mind..but its so much work! wink.gif ..i dont believe it will magically turn the he500 into the he6 killing machine.. I even hope it will be better then the velours i love so much..we have to see.. tongue.gif

It really depends on what you like about the velours - if it is the tonality you like about them (airy treble, light open midrange, tactile clean-cut bass) then no leather/pleather-based pads will be better, since by nature those kinds of pads will have a "meatier" bass/lower midrange, and tamer upper end with a blacker background.

 

The Jergpad mod is an attempt to fix issues with the pleather pads, namely the lack of damping, but to preserve its tonality (again, meaty lower end, musical and relatively tame upper end, a midrange that blooms without being muddy) which to me gives the HE500s a more natural and musical tonal balance than the velours.

 

You will never get the resolution or dynamics or extension of the HE6 by modding your HE500; the HE500s are ultimately limited by the capabilities of their drivers. Same with attempts at modding HE400s to get closer to HE500s; it'll get maybe 85% ~ 90% there, but that last 10% is what that sets their leagues.


Edited by jerg - 1/29/13 at 12:50am
post #6474 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

It really depends on what you like about the velours - if it is the tonality you like about them (airy treble, light open midrange, tactile clean-cut bass) then no leather/pleather-based pads will be better, since by nature those kinds of pads will have a "meatier" bass/lower midrange, and tamer upper end with a blacker background.

The Jergpad mod is an attempt to fix issues with the pleather pads, namely the lack of damping, but to preserve its tonality (again, meaty lower end, musical and relatively tame upper end, a midrange that blooms without being muddy) which to me gives the HE500s a more natural and musical tonal balance than the velours.

You will never get the resolution or dynamics or extension of the HE6 by modding your HE500; the HE500s are ultimately limited by the capabilities of their drivers. Same with attempts at modding HE400s to get closer to HE500s; it'll get maybe 85% ~ 90% there, but that last 10% is what that sets their leagues.
I agree totally with u jerg..it happens to be i once changed the velour pads on he300 to the pleather ones as i loved that sound more..but on the he400 and 500 it was other way around..so as i said..i am all openminded..as u know i am.. Honestly..am really curious how the jergpads will sound... wink.gif
post #6475 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

If you couldn't tell the sound difference between velour pads and pleather pads on HE400 or HE500, then it wouldn't surprise me if earpad mods, or other pads like J$ beyer pads or LCD2/3 pads would still sound the same to you.

 

 

 

Of course it's entirely possible I just don't care for the sound of the HE-500. I've said before, and still say, that to me it makes everything sound like it was recorded in a cave, and no matter what I do I can't escape that feeling (that's an exaggeration, of course, but you get the idea). The LCD-2 (Rev 1) I had was by comparison very open and sunny sounding, so it's not my ears.Choice of music could be relevant: I only listen to classical/orchestral--no pop, rock or vocals of any kind, so people raving about the HE-500s performance with vocals leaves me cold. I'm prepared to believe that my opinion of the HE-500 could be reversed if I suddenly turned into a rocker, or decided to buy an expensive valve amp, but neither of those things is going to happen. I want a headphone that conveys the excitement of a large orchestra in full flight with a minimum of listener fatigue, and it needs to do that with a regular SS amp that has all those decadent relics of a bygone age like tone and balance controls, remote etc. At the moment I'm very much enjoying the DT880Pro through a NAD C326BEE integrated with treble control at -3db. This gives me a sound way beyond the cost of these items. Low-fi? Probably, but the excitement comes through in spades without causing me to wince every few seconds, and that's no mean feat from equipment at any price.

post #6476 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

Of course it's entirely possible I just don't care for the sound of the HE-500. I've said before, and still say, that to me it makes everything sound like it was recorded in a cave, and no matter what I do I can't escape that feeling (that's an exaggeration, of course, but you get the idea). The LCD-2 (Rev 1) I had was by comparison very open and sunny sounding, so it's not my ears.Choice of music could be relevant: I only listen to classical/orchestral--no pop, rock or vocals of any kind, so people raving about the HE-500s performance with vocals leaves me cold. I'm prepared to believe that my opinion of the HE-500 could be reversed if I suddenly turned into a rocker, or decided to buy an expensive valve amp, but neither of those things is going to happen. I want a headphone that conveys the excitement of a large orchestra in full flight with a minimum of listener fatigue, and it needs to do that with a regular SS amp that has all those decadent relics of a bygone age like tone and balance controls, remote etc. At the moment I'm very much enjoying the DT880Pro through a NAD C326BEE integrated with treble control at -3db. This gives me a sound way beyond the cost of these items. Low-fi? Probably, but the excitement comes through in spades without causing me to wince every few seconds, and that's no mean feat from equipment at any price.

I too experience the "cave" aka cupped-sounding issue with the HE500, but only with stock unmodded pleather earpads; so I'm not sure if I can relate to your negative experiences with these cans or that we experienced different issues.

post #6477 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

I too experience the "cave" aka cupped-sounding issue with the HE500, but only with stock unmodded pleather earpads; so I'm not sure if I can relate to your negative experiences with these cans or that we experienced different issues.
We are talking bout pleathers right? As the velour pads dont have that cupped,in cave sound, at all...BUT..i did find the right amp though for me he500 (by accident to be honest) so maybe that helps to elevate the sound of my he500 to excellence also. To my ears anyway. wink.gif

Wait a second..isnt this the HE400 thread? Why r we talking bout the 500 on this thread then redface.gif oopsie ..wrong thread biggrin.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 1/29/13 at 2:11am
post #6478 of 18332

I propose splitting this thread into two parts:

 

  • The HifiMAN HE-400 Impressions and Discussions Thread --- Where we can discuss the merits of the HE-400 as well as touch on the merits or weaknesses along with amplification, DACification for the headphones as well as potential improvements that could be made.

 

  • The HifiMAN HE-400 "Bawlers, Brawlers and Bastards" Thread --- Where theory can be discussed or disputed, members can say "nanny, nanny, boo-boo" to other members where they disagree with them and they want to take 15+ posts to attempt to provide justification for using "nanny, nanny, boo-boo" when attempting to conduct a logical discussion.
post #6479 of 18332
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

I propose splitting this thread into two parts:
  • The HifiMAN HE-400 Impressions and Discussions Thread --- Where we can discuss the merits of the HE-400 as well as touch on the merits or weaknesses along with amplification, DACification for the headphones as well as potential improvements that could be made.
  • The HifiMAN HE-400 "Bawlers, Brawlers and Bastards" Thread --- Where theory can be discussed or disputed, members can say "nanny, nanny, boo-boo" to other members where they disagree with them and they want to take 15+ posts to attempt to provide justification for using "nanny, nanny, boo-boo" when attempting to conduct a logical discussion.
+1 i agree totally with u, otherwise this good thread can derail into some yeah and neah discussions that can go on forever rolleyes.gif
post #6480 of 18332

+1 .. it would make this thread more readable.
 

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