Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › **Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread**
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 385

post #5761 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifi Man View Post

Okay, so I've had these for a couple of days and I have pretty much listened to stuff on them continuously for these past days. If there's anything I could say about them, if I were to kind of make up descriptive words as I go along to describe what I'm hearing, I would say that the sounds are kind of dark. Indeed I do hear things very clearly, and different sounds really seem to stand out on their own, where as with my old headphones perhaps they would meld together with all of the sounds, and for lack of better words not creating as immersive an experience. With these headphones I think I am starting to feel a burn in, of my mind if you will. Back peddling to what I said about "Dark sound." It's not a completely lush and colorful sound. If there's a song with guitar and bass, I don't hear how they would otherwise be audible. I kind of feel like I'm almost having to strain myself sometimes to hear these instruments when they are lower in the mix. However I try to be completely honest and open minded, I am still learning and more or less picking up more noticeable differences between these headphones and my old ones. One thing that is more audible than the acoustics are the percussions. I'm wondering if this is because of my lack of an amplifier. I am using nothing but a DAC (I hooked the headphones in through an RCA adapter), and I have been told that when I plug it into an amplifier the sound will "come alive." Yet some have told me it won't make much of a difference at all. I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'd still like some inputs though. Thanks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post

 

I think we have the same experience and i have same feelings.

 

I'm using a Aune T1 Tube DAC/AMP  ( Like RMac http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/5700#post_9077560)  and fortunately, it seems I found a tube which does a good job to tame these sibilant , sparkly trebles . IMO the problem is not only with trebles but with recessed mids. A bit lack of mids gives the focus on trebles ant that's hurting me. I tried to EQ my he-400 and the results is +2 for midrange and -2 from  8 KhZ to highest frequencies. Then I change the tube for a 6DJ8 instead of my 6N23p-EB .. and it made a kind of miracle.

 

Forwarder mids and a bit tamed trebles tend to eliminate sibilance in most cases. I listened to very different music yesterday and  I think I could now keep my he-400 . Not sure yet but I think I can  :)

 

I should be honest and say that it could only be a "brain and ears"  burn but he-400 stays quite hard to listen from another source (my living room gear) 

 

I have noticed that at times I have felt that I was straining to hear the mid frequencies, but this seems to be very recording dependent, as other times I feel the mids are very pronounced. 

 

In terms of EQing, I am wiling to do it to tailor the sound signature.  However, EQing to rectify the sibilance feels to me as though I'm trying to mask an actual issue with these headphones possibly at the expense of losing detail.  I don't know I haven't tried.  I understand EQing to user preference, but to fix a considerable problem I'm not sure.  I have seen a few mention that they have found EQ settings that have improved sibilance, but there does not seem to be a silver bullet for those who are reporting it.  I have no experience with Foobar or other equalization software.  I'm under the assumption that they actually assuming control of the computer's audio properties, so is it correct that I could use with MOG and youtube?

 

The suggestion of a tube amp seems good, but for me I don't have the funds to be purchasing an amp solely for this headphone.  I have an odac/o2 combo on the way, and I am hoping that I don't become completely obsessed with this hobby (though I am completely aware of the likelihood heh) that I'll feel I need to go dac or amp shopping again.  I want it to be my end game amp or at least my rock for quite awhile.  I know that's a big statement having not heard much else, but that's where I am at right now in my life.  I know the odac/o2 will not do my sibilance issue any favors.  My dad does have a vintage NAD receiver that he is going to have repaired for me.  I have heard those can add a little warmth.

post #5762 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Yes, most of the times I experience sibilance on the HE-400 is with pop music and over-processed vocals.  Usually those tend to be bad recordings too.  The spike is still something I rather not have though.

 

I can understand.  But, if one likes what HifiMAN offers, they can go to the HE-500 to minimize this.  But, the cost "to play" also goes up by about $300.00.  That is why if your headphones use the computer as your source, it is relatively easy to EQ via the various audio players that are within our access.

post #5763 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by BearWant View Post

I understand EQing to user preference, but to fix a considerable problem I'm not sure.  I have seen a few mention that they have found EQ settings that have improved sibilance, but there does not seem to be a silver bullet for those who are reporting it.  I have no experience with Foobar or other equalization software.  I'm under the assumption that they actually assuming control of the computer's audio properties, so is it correct that I could use with MOG and youtube?

 

 

I have personally given up on Foobar as of a few days ago.  I had some contention using it with the Wasapi driver as I was switching DACs in an out.  I've moved over to Winamp, and as a preference, I'm happier, and my issues have gone away.  

 

I basically drop the 6 KHz frequency down a bit and problems are solved.  I don't feel that the EQ masks anything, it just controls the response, so that frequency is "tamed."  You can control the amount of reduction that you want.  Usually, just a few dB does it.  Plus, when reducing that frequency down, it only eliminated the sibilants for me, but doesn't remove any of the other sound qualities that I enjoy.

post #5764 of 17599

I know I think I've mentioned this before with you, but the 6khz region is the area where HE-400 is recessed the most.  biggrin.gif

post #5765 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

I know I think I've mentioned this before with you, but the 6khz region is the area where HE-400 is recessed the most.  biggrin.gif

 

I was thinking the same thing, I thought the spike was a little higher up the frequency response.

post #5766 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

I know I think I've mentioned this before with you, but the 6khz region is the area where HE-400 is recessed the most.  biggrin.gif

 

Actually, not in my case.  That is where the sibilants can be heard.  So, I make my cut at that point and the issue is resolved.  We all hear - and are affected differently.  tongue.gif

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

I was thinking the same thing, I thought the spike was a little higher up the frequency response.

 

If I apply the cut at 10 KHz, I can't detect a difference.  6 KHz is the "hot spot" for my ears, and hearing.


Edited by wje - 1/21/13 at 8:24am
post #5767 of 17599

It's at about 9KHz according to headphones.com and innerfidelity.

 

Sibilance is around ~4KHz-10KHz

post #5768 of 17599
Quote:
Sibilants are louder than their non-sibilant counterparts, and most of their acoustic energy occurs at higher frequencies than non-sibilant fricatives. [s] has the most acoustic strength at around 8,000 Hz, but can reach as high as 10,000 Hz. [ʃ] has the bulk of its acoustic energy at around 4,000 Hz, but can extend up to around 8,000 Hz.

 

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant

post #5769 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

I have personally given up on Foobar as of a few days ago.  I had some contention using it with the Wasapi driver as I was switching DACs in an out.  I've moved over to Winamp, and as a preference, I'm happier, and my issues have gone away.  

 

I basically drop the 6 KHz frequency down a bit and problems are solved.  I don't feel that the EQ masks anything, it just controls the response, so that frequency is "tamed."  You can control the amount of reduction that you want.  Usually, just a few dB does it.  Plus, when reducing that frequency down, it only eliminated the sibilants for me, but doesn't remove any of the other sound qualities that I enjoy.

I just think Winamp is an ugly, counter-intuitive player. I'm shallow.

post #5770 of 17599

Yes, the majority of natural sibilance is well below 10khz, which is probably why I only get any bad issues on the HE-400 when there's heavily processed vocals.

post #5771 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjames View Post

I just think Winamp is an ugly, counter-intuitive player. I'm shallow.

It looks nice with the Winampple skin. That's the only nice looking skin I could find for it, most are really bad IMO.

 

It still has two separate windows though which I hate... at least it's better than the default 4.

post #5772 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

It looks nice with the Winampple skin. That's the only nice looking skin I could find for it, most are really bad IMO.

 

It still has two separate windows though which I hate... at least it's better than the default 4.

For me, I need to have my media library presented to me nicely. I would have stuck with Windows Media Player with the FLAC plugins if I could get a good WASAPI-like plugin and if WMP was able to handle over a terabyte of music!

post #5773 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

It's at about 9KHz according to headphones.com and innerfidelity.

 

Sibilance is around ~4KHz-10KHz

 

I detected the highest peaks using sinegen on 7.7 khz and 11khz with mine. So sibilance is being caused in one of those two frequencies, for me at least.

 

9khz is pretty fine. Maybe it differs from ear to ear, or maybe from headhphone to headphone.

post #5774 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamoto View Post

 

I detected the highest peaks using sinegen on 7.7 khz and 11khz with mine. So sibilance is being caused in one of those two frequencies, for me at least.

 

9khz is pretty fine. Maybe it differs from ear to ear, or maybe from headhphone to headphone.

Same here, to my ears there seems to be a major dip around 9kHz or so, bracketed by two treble peaks. Could be an artifact of the amp or a ringing peak in disguise though.

post #5775 of 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Same here, to my ears there seems to be a major dip around 9kHz or so, bracketed by two treble peaks. Could be an artifact of the amp or a ringing peak in disguise though.

There's a major dip in most people's hearing around 9kHz. It's the quietest frequency below 15kHz aside from the bass. That's probably why so many headphones have a peak right there.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › **Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread**