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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 353

post #5281 of 17592
Originally Posted by Skooks View Post

There's not an audio device of any kind that doesn't change with burn-in... that includes headphones, speakers, amps, dacs, cables and etc. That is a proven fact!

 

Cool story, bro.. we're here to discuss the HE-400.  There's a 'sound science' subforum you can take this argument to.. cause you know, burn-in debates just doesn't come up enough cool.gif.  Unless of course, you're trying to get this thread locked or yourself banned.


Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

@FlySweep: when did you listen (own) the HE-500? Was it the first version with Canare cable and old velour pads?

 

The HE-500 I owned was the latest rev. that was available around April 2012.  My pair came with the silver cables (terminated to a 3.5mm plug).  I had shorter, custom silver cables made for the HE-500, as well.  I terminated the stock (silver cable) to speaker plugs so I could drive it from a speaker amp.  My HE-500 had the silver cabling (that the stock cable was made of) in the housing which connected the coax plugs to the planar drivers.  As far as I knew, it had the newer/newest velour pads.  In my estimation, they're identical to the velour pads that came with my HE-400 just yesterday.


Edited by FlySweep - 1/16/13 at 3:04am
post #5282 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Days Off View Post

I think you're not used to very low distortion clean clear bass. You can try a much more powerful amp and it should get louder without clipping like you find with the e17, but clubs have very boomy bass with a lot of distortion and not a lot of texture..mostly just a ton of power that you can feel. It's not what good quality headphones like the HE-400 are designed to do..but I bet with a much more powerful amp you might be happy..

 

 

I just noticed something VERY odd regarding my previous gear and bass. I just put on a typical trance song with IE8's on my E17 NO eq and the bass is incredible, it's like they are reproducing a very accurate bass frequency response, tight deep, punch, very well defined.. something none of my headphones can do without a bass EQ

 

I'd need +8 bass (E17) on my xb700's to get the level of IE8's with no EQ and the bass knob on them isn't even on max.. the x1's probably need +4 or 6 to get the same amount and lastly he-400 can't even produce such intense bass at all on my e17... i wouldn't be surprised if the ie8s have the most accurate bass (with my setup) because after all I am playing trance songs, you'd expect to hear a strong bassline.. like something you'd hear with a decent set of 2.1 speakers, yet the headphones always cut short in that aspect, unless you boost them with an eq after an hour of testing I may have exaggerated, but the point remains the headphone usually need decent EQing to bring out the bass.. the he-400 with no bass eq is literally bassless in comparison

 

so if im an ultrabass head, then so is everyone that uses an IE8 with a decent source

 

I guess you won't really notice the inaccurate bass response (IMO) of the he-400s+E17 if you're not a trance/electro head.


Edited by Jabse - 1/16/13 at 3:26am
post #5283 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabse View Post

Yes, I noticed nearly all the distortion happens when volume is near maxed out on E17 and gain is 12, much less distortion with 6 gain.

if you don't mind, can you link me one of your favorite basshead songs, give me your exact e17 (via usb) settings (gain, tre, bass, volume) and i'll see how it goes/if the bass tickles my ears

 

It's not that it lacks bass by any means, the thing is it just isn't going loud enough to make them vibrate with bass even with 6 gain... and 12 gain=distortion so yeah

 

If I use E17 with laptop, I use 6 gain and about 40 volume. (at 50 my ears would bleed blood). So please check that at PC all volume is maxed out (and disable all EQ settings). (windows mixer and from player).

 

If I use E17 as amplifier with mp3 player, I max out player volume and disable all EQ -settings. (I have cowon J3). I only have to add bit more volume than my Laptop (maybe max 45?), but never had to put gain to 12.

 

Problem is that if source signal is weak then E17 have hard time to amplify that to decent volume without distortion.


Edited by Habu - 1/16/13 at 2:32am
post #5284 of 17592
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabse View Post

 

 

I just noticed something VERY odd regarding my previous gear and bass. I just put on a typical trance song with IE8's on my E17 NO eq and the bass is incredible, it's like they are reproducing a very accurate bass frequency response, tight deep, punch, very well defined.. something none of my headphones can do without a bass EQ

 

I'd need +8 bass (E17) on my xb700's to get the level of IE8's with no EQ and the bass knob on them isn't even on max.. the x1's probably need +4 or 6 to get the same amount and lastly he-400 can't even produce such intense bass at all on my e17... i wouldn't be surprised if the ie8s have the most accurate bass (with my setup) because after all I am playing trance songs, you'd expect to hear a strong bassline.. like something you'd hear with a decent set of 2.1 speakers, yet the headphones always cut short in that aspect, unless you boost them with an eq after an hour of testing I may have exaggerated, but the point remains the headphone usually need decent EQing to bring out the bass.. the he-400 with no bass eq is literally bassless in comparison

 

so if im an ultrabass head, then so is everyone that uses an IE8 with a decent source

 

I guess you won't really notice the inaccurate bass response (IMO) of the he-400s+E17 if you're not a trance/electro head.

 

I would say +2 on Jerg's recommendation that this hp is not for you but that you might consider the denon d2k or d5k. I think that they will have the sound that you are after. I've owned both of them and read all of your comments on issues with the bass via the e17. Also, I don't think that a new amp will resolve this issue for you. Keep the e17 and try one of the Denon's if it's an option for you. I don't think that you'll get what you're looking for from the he400.

 

gL!!

 

Matt

post #5285 of 17592

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

 

Or just go with the XB1000s. Might be the most aggressive experience I've had with headphones to date. Nothing compares with that sort of quantity.

 

Really seems like priorities are a bit different from the usual HE-400 demographic. Can you describe how the bass distort for you in a bit more detail? Never had that happen before.

 

 

I'm kind of in the same boat as this other guy. I'm a new HE-400 owner and I also get that distorted bass. I'll try and explain what I'm hearing with the bass distortion. On lower/medium volumes and with little to no EQ there is deep although not loud, bass in the track. There is a lot of "wub wub wub" is the best I can describe the sound. It's deep, full and sounds like its coming from a club speaker, just the volume is obviously no there. Really, at low volumes the bass quality and quantity sounds great. So, as you turn up the volume, at some point the bass turns from "wub" to "bzzz" type sound. To me, it sounds like a speaker that has been turned up and is distorting. That's the only time I've ever heard that sort of sound. Like a blown/distorted speaker turned up past its limits. The thing is, its only the bass that is distorting, the mids and treble still sound fine. (source - Winamp(wasapi)  --> onboard sound --> E11 (gain high, eq off or +2, same thing. Also tried this with my Iphone and E11, same thing happens).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

I would say +2 on Jerg's recommendation that this hp is not for you but that you might consider the denon d2k or d5k. I think that they will have the sound that you are after. I've owned both of them and read all of your comments on issues with the bass via the e17. Also, I don't think that a new amp will resolve this issue for you. Keep the e17 and try one of the Denon's if it's an option for you. I don't think that you'll get what you're looking for from the he400.

 

gL!!

 

Matt

 

 

I feel sort of in the same boat as the other guy. I then wonder why these cans are even put in the "basshead club". As much as I love them for almost all my music, they just don't do any EDM justice. Treble is great and mids are superb. But, where's the bass? I know all songs don't have ear shattering bass, but there hasn't been a single time where my ear was even close to having that nice vibration/ear massage no matter at what level I drive these things to. When I try to EQ I just end up making it sound worse. The EQ switch on the Fiio does a far better job eqing then I can (I wish I could copy its settings ha ha) but something still isnt there. 

 

My problem now is, I like the airy/open soundstage, but I miss that slam and impact. My M&M stack comes in today so we'll see how that fairs. 

post #5286 of 17592
My stack arrives tomorrow. Thumbs up, looking forward to your impressions!
post #5287 of 17592
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeStudent View Post

 

 

 

 

I feel sort of in the same boat as the other guy. I then wonder why these cans are even put in the "basshead club". As much as I love them for almost all my music, they just don't do any EDM justice. Treble is great and mids are superb. But, where's the bass? I know all songs don't have ear shattering bass, but there hasn't been a single time where my ear was even close to having that nice vibration/ear massage no matter at what level I drive these things to. When I try to EQ I just end up making it sound worse. The EQ switch on the Fiio does a far better job eqing then I can (I wish I could copy its settings ha ha) but something still isnt there. 

 

My problem now is, I like the airy/open soundstage, but I miss that slam and impact. My M&M stack comes in today so we'll see how that fairs. 

 

Most here feel very differently about the bass quality of the he400...texture and impact. For open ortho can, this is the best bass that I've heard outside of the lcd2.2. That's pretty elite company IMO. Of course anyone's opinion on a hp's bass will be relative to their own experience of other hp's they've owned and what their ambition for the sound signature is. The bass that has great slam and texture for me, may sound bass light to you. Partly because of your experience with other equipment, your hearing and many other factors. 

 

While the he400 might qualify as a "bass can," I'd never put that moniker on it. This is a serious headphone that happens to be one of the best at accurate bass reproduction to the point of being somewhat "fun." But no, it is not a basshead can. Not in my estimation.  It will not please most of the EDM crowd, at club levels on an e17. 

post #5288 of 17592

If you guys are thinking that the bass lacks punch, that's probably due to the lack of a mid-bass hump that pretty much every dynamic headphone has to some extent.

 

Get a parametric EQ and make a hump centered around 100Hz if you want a more punchy bass.

post #5289 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeStudent View Post

 

I'm kind of in the same boat as this other guy. I'm a new HE-400 owner and I also get that distorted bass. I'll try and explain what I'm hearing with the bass distortion. On lower/medium volumes and with little to no EQ there is deep although not loud, bass in the track. There is a lot of "wub wub wub" is the best I can describe the sound. It's deep, full and sounds like its coming from a club speaker, just the volume is obviously no there. Really, at low volumes the bass quality and quantity sounds great. So, as you turn up the volume, at some point the bass turns from "wub" to "bzzz" type sound. To me, it sounds like a speaker that has been turned up and is distorting. That's the only time I've ever heard that sort of sound. Like a blown/distorted speaker turned up past its limits. The thing is, its only the bass that is distorting, the mids and treble still sound fine. (source - Winamp(wasapi)  --> onboard sound --> E11 (gain high, eq off or +2, same thing. Also tried this with my Iphone and E11, same thing happens).

 

 

 

 

I feel sort of in the same boat as the other guy. I then wonder why these cans are even put in the "basshead club". As much as I love them for almost all my music, they just don't do any EDM justice. Treble is great and mids are superb. But, where's the bass? I know all songs don't have ear shattering bass, but there hasn't been a single time where my ear was even close to having that nice vibration/ear massage no matter at what level I drive these things to. When I try to EQ I just end up making it sound worse. The EQ switch on the Fiio does a far better job eqing then I can (I wish I could copy its settings ha ha) but something still isnt there. 

 

My problem now is, I like the airy/open soundstage, but I miss that slam and impact. My M&M stack comes in today so we'll see how that fairs. 

Im unsure whenever ill be correct here, but can you check your EQ in the system you are using to run the music?(Laptop for example).

Ive personally had this problem if i used X-bass or Bass Boost settings on my cowon i9, even if i used 0 bass gain on the Fiio E17.

 

However, after setting it to "Feel the Wind" or "Crystal Clear", the bass did not distor at bass +4 gain 12 volume 60 (again, from cowon i9).

 

From laptop, i have th EQ set to flat, and at Fiio E17 +2 to bass, and again 0 distortion on bass. For me, a good bass is a "short, impactfull bass that vanishes almost instantly after the sound begins"

 

My cousin on the other hand likes the type og bass that is "Vibrating and fades away". This is the sort of bass i belive is "distored" and is when i use software eq to increse bass.

 

Not sure if this is waht you mean, but i hope it helps a bit.

post #5290 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

Most here feel very differently about the bass quality of the he400...texture and impact. 

 

Truer words have never been spoken.  I love the HE-400s, but don't consider myself a fanboi.  I have many other headphones, and have owned many others, too.  For some reason, the HE-400s are always my "keepers" while the others get sold to purchase others.  Out of my headphone listening time, I only spend about 25% of the ratio with the HE-400s, and the rest of the time with the others.  But, when it comes to that time with the HE-400s, that is when I personally get "wowed" each and every time.

 

True story.

post #5291 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

If you guys are thinking that the bass lacks punch, that's probably due to the lack of a mid-bass hump that pretty much every dynamic headphone has to some extent.

 

Get a parametric EQ and make a hump centered around 100Hz if you want a more punchy bass.

The HE-400 are Planar Magnetic my friend :D.

post #5292 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by catspaw View Post

The HE-400 are Planar Magnetic my friend :D.

Maybe I worded that a little weird...

 

The HE-400 has no mid-bass hump at all because its drivers aren't dynamic. Want some more punch, then EQ the hump into it.

post #5293 of 17592
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjames View Post

I must be the only person who is totally content with stock pleathers without removing anything. I definitely will never remove the spacer, as I am more scared of dust than the rest of you, it seems. 

I quite enjoyed the stock pleather sound as well but I eventually switched over to the velours. It takes me a few minutes to switch pads so by the time I start to listen again I forget what the other pads sound like. Although I am intrigued about removing the spacers as I didn't do that before. So, I might do that but knowing me I won't tell a difference between that and the velours so it will be a waste if time lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabse View Post

I did a pretty quirky pad mod, I used the back of a pleather ring to attach the HM5 pads to the 4 clips then attached that ring to another ring with 4 evenly distributed string knots in the holes of the rings (since the holes are aligned) result vs velour

- more open sounding/much more airy

- better bass extention

- wider soundstage

- detail/clarity seems to be on par

Interesting. Do you care to show some pics?
post #5294 of 17592

2 sets of velours arrived today so i've done the swap and thought I would post some pics and impressions.

 

I remember reading someone mention the newest pleather pads being thicker, whereas the general consesus was that the velours are thicker. From what is in front of me they seem similar though the my pleathers could be a little thicker, and that is after a few weeks use.

 

Pleather:

 

 

Velour:

 

 

Side by side. Pleather on the left, velour to the right:

 

 

Holding them up to my monitor, you can easily see how much more transparent the dust screen material is on the velours:

 

 

As for impressions, only been using them for an hour or so and I already much prefer the comfort. The main reason I wanted to change is because it is currently very hot where I live (regularly high 30's (100 Fahrenheit)) if not more. Was 40 degrees on Christmas day!

 

I'm not sure how good I am at describing what I hear but the first thing I noticed was that the bass was not as prominent. It's all still present, after listening more I think it is just quicker to decay, tighter?

 

I'm noticing the treble more but it sounds great, more airy. Noticing the mids more also, I think both these are because the bass is not as dominant.

 

I was using the pleathers with the spacer still inside so perhaps the change of pads was more significant than if I was not using the spacer?

post #5295 of 17592

I think you're still rockin them foam inserts, man,  After I took them out, the transparency between the pleathers and velours are about what-what.
 

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