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post #5191 of 17023
LCD2 = weight + leather + discomfort. I don't have high hopes for them. I'm sure I'll love their sound, but comfort comes first.

I think I'm first in line for the demo being sent out by Jason, so we'll see.
post #5192 of 17023

I've had the HE-400 for close to 24 hours.  Driven by the ODAC & O2, I've done lots of listening with them last night and all day today.. and as of right now, I couldn't be more happy or impressed with the purchase.  Considering my grievances with the HE-500's tuning.. what the HE-400's tuning delivered is almost exactly what I hoped for.

 

I love the HE-400's bass response.  It's got the linearity & punch I desired.  Much more to my liking that the HE-500's thick, slightly midbass-centric, elevated bass response.  The bass quantaty sounds very close to neutral to my ears.. but it's got terrific depth and punch (when the music calls for it).. just how I like it.  The HE-400's mids?  Oh, those mids.. how I missed that ortho goodness.  Airy, dynamic, smooth, effortless, and beautifully colored.. neutral-ish.. just what I was hoping for.  I get a better sense of space around instruments thanks to the slightly crisper, open tone.. the HE-400's soundstage in the midrange sounds more open than the HE-500 midrange's more intimate presentation.  This actually makes it the HE-400's mids less fatiguing to my ears.  Again, the HE-400's midrange tuning is much more to my preference than the HE-500's mids.  The HE-400's treble is simply fantastic.  Bursting with energy.. but in a very elegant, controlled manner.  Hearing the spike, one might be worried about fatigue or excessive presence.. but I found it very easy to listen to this phone for hours on end.  The treble has that smooth, liquid-y, ortho touch.. so while it's sparkly and 'brilliant,' it never comes across as harsh and grating.  Rarely have I heard treble that can be this engaging and fun.. but still remain so controlled and non-abrasive.  That enhancement in the 10K range gives the entire soundstage a deliciously open, airy feel that never seems to gets old.  I can see how some say it could get harsh at times.. but in my experience, this seems more attributable to a track's (lack of good) recording quality or coloration from the gear upstream.  In my posts leading up to this one, I talked a lot about desire for 'artful' coloration.. I can confidently say the HE-400 delivers that.. in spades.

 

I wrestled with trying to understand all the "dark but bright" characterizations until I got this phone.  I figured it was something I'd just have to listen to, to understand.  Having done son now, I definitely understand that description.  It's wholly accurate.. and, surprisingly, pleasant.  I looked at the HeadRoom graph and figured the deep dip between ~2K & 8K would lead to sounds being almost absent in that region.  I sense in a more conventional (dynamic) driver, this would be the case.. but this ortho pulls off the peculiar tuning with stunning results.  Despite the dip, sound doesn't feel missing or oddly recessed.  I'm very easily able to retrieve & enjoy the details that typically occupy that band of frequencies.  I've got to think the ability of this ortho driver to deliver clarity & separation in such a natural, effortless manner has something to do with it.  On a lesser driver or technology, this tuning would sound very odd, I think.  It definitely gives this phone a very unique sound.. one I can't seem to tire of.  Instead of delving into this more.. I'll just say the "dark but bright" sound simply works.  It's beautifully done and doesn't hinder the HE-400's ability to be versatile.

 

I've been listening to a lot of Jeff Golub's work since the HE-400 arrived.. most of his albums are well engineered and aside from me really digging his music.. it also sounds utterly amazing though the ODAC/O2/HE-400.  To use an oft-mentioned cliche, it feels like I'm "right there in the studio with him."  The smooth but energetic tuning of the HE-400 compliments his blues/soul/rock chops exceedingly well.  All the intricacies, shifts, tonal qualities, and layers of instrumentation are presented in such a breathtakingly effortless manner, it feels less like I'm wearing headphones.. and more like I've got a pair of near-field Maggies beside me.  I've heard enough good (and bad) phones to maintain tempered enthusiasm.. but the HE-400 is a phone I'm genuinely giddy about.  The praise & hype, IMO.. is fully deserved.  I can certainly see why many enjoy running it through a tube amp (upgrade/mod work on mine will be done soon).. I'm salivating at the thought of how it will sound through the Lake People G109-S which arrives tomorrow.  Do note that if all I had to drive the HE-400 was the ODAC & O2, I'd be more than content.  The transparency this DAC & amp offer is terrific and it accentuates all the wonderful things the HE-400 is capable of (by 'getting out of the way,' so to speak).

 

More thoughts coming after the G109-S arrives tomorrow...

post #5193 of 17023
That headroom graph is severely outdated, and probably for the first HE400.
post #5194 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

 

 

Maybe the LCD-2 can get the very low end rumble of the D7000's.  Afterall, it's always been proclaimed to have bar none the best bass extension out of any headphone period.

It won't have the rumble actually, because its lower bass THD is significantly lower than that of D7ks (in fact lower than all dynamics and other non-Audeze planars) so you have bare minimum harmonic noise basically. When it needs to deliver subbass, it delivers it very cleanly and strongly, but never a rumble unless the music specifically has a rumble.

post #5195 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

It won't have the rumble actually, because its lower bass THD is significantly lower than that of D7ks (in fact lower than all dynamics and other non-Audeze planars) so you have bare minimum harmonic noise basically. When it needs to deliver subbass, it delivers it very cleanly and strongly, but never a rumble unless the music specifically has a rumble.

Call it what you want, I'd call it the best harmonic bass distortion I've heard on any headphone. I WISH the HE-400 had the D7000's rumble. They would be near perfect then.
post #5196 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

It won't have the rumble actually, because its lower bass THD is significantly lower than that of D7ks (in fact lower than all dynamics and other non-Audeze planars) so you have bare minimum harmonic noise basically. When it needs to deliver subbass, it delivers it very cleanly and strongly, but never a rumble unless the music specifically has a rumble.

 

 

Well, yes.  I actually dismissed the word rumble in some post somewhere on this subforum, as I think it's a word that's not easily described.  :P

My argument was that rumble is usually associated to the LFE in movies, and those aren't even just sub-bass, they're full-spectrum bass, from subsonic frequencies all the way up to 100hz and above.

 

I know I have some very specific songs (some of which are movie soundtracks and have the LFE in them) they'll be the first thing I listen to with the LCD2.

post #5197 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

I've had the HE-400 for close to 24 hours.  Driven by the ODAC & O2, I've done lots of listening with them last night and all day today.. and as of right now, I couldn't be more happy or impressed with the purchase.  Considering my grievances with the HE-500's tuning.. what the HE-400's tuning delivered is almost exactly what I hoped for.

 

I love the HE-400's bass response.  It's got the linearity & punch I desired.  Much more to my liking that the HE-500's thick, slightly midbass-centric, elevated bass response.  The bass quantaty sounds very close to neutral to my ears.. but it's got terrific depth and punch (when the music calls for it).. just how I like it.  The HE-400's mids?  Oh, those mids.. how I missed that ortho goodness.  Airy, dynamic, smooth, effortless, and beautifully colored.. neutral-ish.. just what I was hoping for.  I get a better sense of space around instruments thanks to the slightly crisper, open tone.. the HE-400's soundstage in the midrange sounds more open than the HE-500 midrange's more intimate presentation.  This actually makes it the HE-400's mids less fatiguing to my ears.  Again, the HE-400's midrange tuning is much more to my preference than the HE-500's mids.  The HE-400's treble is simply fantastic.  Bursting with energy.. but in a very elegant, controlled manner.  Hearing the spike, one might be worried about fatigue or excessive presence.. but I found it very easy to listen to this phone for hours on end.  The treble has that smooth, liquid-y, ortho touch.. so while it's sparkly and 'brilliant,' it never comes across as harsh and grating.  Rarely have I heard treble that can be this engaging and fun.. but still remain so controlled and non-abrasive.  That enhancement in the 10K range gives the entire soundstage a deliciously open, airy feel that never seems to gets old.  I can see how some say it could get harsh at times.. but in my experience, this seems more attributable to a track's (lack of good) recording quality or coloration from the gear upstream.  In my posts leading up to this one, I talked a lot about desire for 'artful' coloration.. I can confidently say the HE-400 delivers that.. in spades.

 

I wrestled with trying to understand all the "dark but bright" characterizations until I got this phone.  I figured it was something I'd just have to listen to, to understand.  Having done son now, I definitely understand that description.  It's wholly accurate.. and, surprisingly, pleasant.  I looked at the HeadRoom graph and figured the deep dip between ~2K & 8K would lead to sounds being almost absent in that region.  I sense in a more conventional (dynamic) driver, this would be the case.. but this ortho pulls off the peculiar tuning with stunning results.  Despite the dip, sound doesn't feel missing or oddly recessed.  I'm very easily able to retrieve & enjoy the details that typically occupy that band of frequencies.  I've got to think the ability of this ortho driver to deliver clarity & separation in such a natural, effortless manner has something to do with it.  On a lesser driver or technology, this tuning would sound very odd, I think.  It definitely gives this phone a very unique sound.. one I can't seem to tire of.  Instead of delving into this more.. I'll just say the "dark but bright" sound simply works.  It's beautifully done and doesn't hinder the HE-400's ability to be versatile.

 

I've been listening to a lot of Jeff Golub's work since the HE-400 arrived.. most of his albums are well engineered and aside from me really digging his music.. it also sounds utterly amazing though the ODAC/O2/HE-400.  To use an oft-mentioned cliche, it feels like I'm "right there in the studio with him."  The smooth but energetic tuning of the HE-400 compliments his blues/soul/rock chops exceedingly well.  All the intricacies, shifts, tonal qualities, and layers of instrumentation are presented in such a breathtakingly effortless manner, it feels less like I'm wearing headphones.. and more like I've got a pair of near-field Maggies beside me.  I've heard enough good (and bad) phones to maintain tempered enthusiasm.. but the HE-400 is a phone I'm genuinely giddy about.  The praise & hype, IMO.. is fully deserved.  I can certainly see why many enjoy running it through a tube amp (upgrade/mod work on mine will be done soon).. I'm salivating at the thought of how it will sound through the Lake People G109-S which arrives tomorrow.  Do note that if all I had to drive the HE-400 was the ODAC & O2, I'd be more than content.  The transparency this DAC & amp offer is terrific and it accentuates all the wonderful things the HE-400 is capable of (by 'getting out of the way,' so to speak).

 

More thoughts coming after the G109-S arrives tomorrow...

Very cool impressions! Basically the HE400s complement your preferences to perfection.

post #5198 of 17023
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

I've had the HE-400 for close to 24 hours.  Driven by the ODAC & O2, I've done lots of listening with them last night and all day today.. and as of right now, I couldn't be more happy or impressed with the purchase.  Considering my grievances with the HE-500's tuning.. what the HE-400's tuning delivered is almost exactly what I hoped for.

 

I love the HE-400's bass response.  It's got the linearity & punch I desired.  Much more to my liking that the HE-500's thick, slightly midbass-centric, elevated bass response.  The bass quantaty sounds very close to neutral to my ears.. but it's got terrific depth and punch (when the music calls for it).. just how I like it.  The HE-400's mids?  Oh, those mids.. how I missed that ortho goodness.  Airy, dynamic, smooth, effortless, and beautifully colored.. neutral-ish.. just what I was hoping for.  I get a better sense of space around instruments thanks to the slightly crisper, open tone.. the HE-400's soundstage in the midrange sounds more open than the HE-500 midrange's more intimate presentation.  This actually makes it the HE-400's mids less fatiguing to my ears.  Again, the HE-400's midrange tuning is much more to my preference than the HE-500's mids.  The HE-400's treble is simply fantastic.  Bursting with energy.. but in a very elegant, controlled manner.  Hearing the spike, one might be worried about fatigue or excessive presence.. but I found it very easy to listen to this phone for hours on end.  The treble has that smooth, liquid-y, ortho touch.. so while it's sparkly and 'brilliant,' it never comes across as harsh and grating.  Rarely have I heard treble that can be this engaging and fun.. but still remain so controlled and non-abrasive.  That enhancement in the 10K range gives the entire soundstage a deliciously open, airy feel that never seems to gets old.  I can see how some say it could get harsh at times.. but in my experience, this seems more attributable to a track's (lack of good) recording quality or coloration from the gear upstream.  In my posts leading up to this one, I talked a lot about desire for 'artful' coloration.. I can confidently say the HE-400 delivers that.. in spades.

 

I wrestled with trying to understand all the "dark but bright" characterizations until I got this phone.  I figured it was something I'd just have to listen to, to understand.  Having done son now, I definitely understand that description.  It's wholly accurate.. and, surprisingly, pleasant.  I looked at the HeadRoom graph and figured the deep dip between ~2K & 8K would lead to sounds being almost absent in that region.  I sense in a more conventional (dynamic) driver, this would be the case.. but this ortho pulls off the peculiar tuning with stunning results.  Despite the dip, sound doesn't feel missing or oddly recessed.  I'm very easily able to retrieve & enjoy the details that typically occupy that band of frequencies.  I've got to think the ability of this ortho driver to deliver clarity & separation in such a natural, effortless manner has something to do with it.  On a lesser driver or technology, this tuning would sound very odd, I think.  It definitely gives this phone a very unique sound.. one I can't seem to tire of.  Instead of delving into this more.. I'll just say the "dark but bright" sound simply works.  It's beautifully done and doesn't hinder the HE-400's ability to be versatile.

 

I've been listening to a lot of Jeff Golub's work since the HE-400 arrived.. most of his albums are well engineered and aside from me really digging his music.. it also sounds utterly amazing though the ODAC/O2/HE-400.  To use an oft-mentioned cliche, it feels like I'm "right there in the studio with him."  The smooth but energetic tuning of the HE-400 compliments his blues/soul/rock chops exceedingly well.  All the intricacies, shifts, tonal qualities, and layers of instrumentation are presented in such a breathtakingly effortless manner, it feels less like I'm wearing headphones.. and more like I've got a pair of near-field Maggies beside me.  I've heard enough good (and bad) phones to maintain tempered enthusiasm.. but the HE-400 is a phone I'm genuinely giddy about.  The praise & hype, IMO.. is fully deserved.  I can certainly see why many enjoy running it through a tube amp (upgrade/mod work on mine will be done soon).. I'm salivating at the thought of how it will sound through the Lake People G109-S which arrives tomorrow.  Do note that if all I had to drive the HE-400 was the ODAC & O2, I'd be more than content.  The transparency this DAC & amp offer is terrific and it accentuates all the wonderful things the HE-400 is capable of (by 'getting out of the way,' so to speak).

 

More thoughts coming after the G109-S arrives tomorrow...

 

 

Hey, thanks flysweep. I appreciate you taking the time to leave your impressions here. Your take seems to mimic a lot of others here and mine as well. We do differ on the 02 though. It never sounded "quite right" to me. I'd be interested to see what you thought of the lyr/he400 and compared to o2/he400. 

 

On a side note I just fired up Jeff Golub and have listened to a few tracks from Dangerous Curves. REALLY nice!! Any releases that you recommend? 

 

thanks...Matt

post #5199 of 17023
Lol, at bloated prices and used, sure.
post #5200 of 17023

Thanks to D2000 being discontinued, I was able to sell mine at the same price I bought at it-- 3-500 hours of usage later.  A good deal!  

post #5201 of 17023
Thread Starter 

^^ That's a pretty good rental plan!!

post #5202 of 17023

Aaaand I decided to let the HE400s keep the J$ beyer pads. HE500's vocal intimacy just wasn't there with the J$'s, even though detail was boosted like 5-fold, so they will stay with stock pleathers. Now HE400s sound 3x more detailed than HE500s lol. Creates a good dichotomy.

post #5203 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Are you purposefully trying to get your post count up?

 

I was thinking the same thing.  There are times, when each of us strays off-topic a bit here.  However, to be nearly 100% off-topic in 28 posts since joining just today?  Possibly, someone didn't read the rules?  Hmm ....  

 

 

 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


Edited by wje - 1/15/13 at 5:24pm
post #5204 of 17023
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

It still makes sense to get the e17 if a portable means anything to you. While I do like what I've read about magni, it's not portable. But it does fill a nice spot for hp's that are somewhat harder to drive at a very attractive price point. If you think that you'll buy harder to drive phones in the future, the small schitt stack is a good option. It looks like this stack would fill the basic need even for driving the he500 and lcd2. That's impressive for the price. 

 

Also impressive at $80 shipped is the e07k. For the he400, it works well except at very high volume levels. I haven't even had it 24 hours yet, so I'm still getting my brain wrapped around it. But getting into hp's like the he500 and lcd2 is where I'd draw the line on the e07k and e17. It just doesn't have the juice to handle those. 

 

If you're deciding between one of the fiio portables and the magni and have no dac, I'd say go with the magni and save for the dac. Overall it will be somewhat better if you can spend the money. 

Thanks, I guess I'm going with the magni, and maybe the odac to go with it later on biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by catspaw View Post

Id advice to not get the Fiio E17 (i have it personally) unless you will use it also as a portable amp.

For me, its a must since i take my laptop everywhere i go, so i cannot be carring around something bigger (like the BIfrost+LYR).

However, i do plan to get those (Bifrost+Lyr) eventually (when i can afford them).

Best thing i ever did was to find a store that allows me to test the equpment before i buy it, and i advice you do the same.

 

Now dont get me wrong, the Fioo E17 is a great bang for buck, its just not refined enought in my opinion for the HE-400.

I use the HE-400 with the Cowon all the time, and i cannot get enought of it, so you wont go WRONG there, but you probably would do the same thing i did:

Listen to the HE-400 on E17 and say its the best thing ever, and then want the "next" best thing, as i want.

 

Hell, i want the LCDs 3 or the Stax 007 now TT.

I wish I had a store around here like that... I think I'll just stick to my e11 for portable use.  I'm sure it will do fine with the he-400 since it's amp is more powerful then the amp in the e17.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

As it usually is around here, it's about the last 5-10% and what you're willing and want to pay for it. Now this is just an estimate so don't throw frozen tomatoes at me...but I'll say that the e17 will get to about 85% with the he400. For quite a few people, considering the price 85% is enough. Of course it's not enough for any us on THIS thread, but I meant enough for regular people. tongue.gif

 

Again, if the he400 were the hardest to drive hp that I own, I would not have the lyr and bf. The admission is just to high to justify the gain. Now...I'm going to listen to the he400 on my lyr and bf. redface.gif

Guess I'm just splitting hairs then tongue.gif either one I go with would be good based on all the opinions here.  You guys sure I won't miss the eq options on the e17 (like bass/treble boost) if i get the magni, which has no eq options at all?

post #5205 of 17023

Maybe there's a minimum post count he's trying to meet to gain access to the classifieds?  I'm not sure.

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