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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 199

post #2971 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

What I did feel, however, is a recess in the mids, especially in the vocals range which make it sound more "heavy" . By comparison, the HE-500s do sound more open and fuller in this area. The 400s don't quite have the magic mids of the 500s.

The treble quantity is a bit more that adequate for me (I'm used to the smooth treble of the 500s), I hope it will tame up a bit with burn-in.

 

 

I noticed the same thing and just returned my HE400's, I listen primarily to rock and noticed during several songs that the vocals in the track seemed to be recessed while the high hat was overpowering.  I think turning them up to hear the vocals caused the highs to give me tinnitus which I now have and won't go away.  I've never had tinnitus from a hp before and don't listen at excessive volumes.  I would love to see a real frequency graph to get a visual on what I am hearing to confirm it.  I bought some HD600's based on a recommendation and to my ears they have better balance across the frequency spectrum.  Interestingly I play bass guitar and I feel that the HD600 more accurately portrays what I hear coming out of my bass amp than the HE400 but then again I'm not a dubstep or hip hop guy and am not fond of synth bass.  I had rev. 2's btw.

post #2972 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcgov View Post

 

I noticed the same thing and just returned my HE400's, I listen primarily to rock and noticed during several songs that the vocals in the track seemed to be recessed while the high hat was overpowering.  I think turning them up to hear the vocals caused the highs to give me tinnitus which I now have and won't go away.  I've never had tinnitus from a hp before and don't listen at excessive volumes.  I would love to see a real frequency graph to get a visual on what I am hearing to confirm it.  I bought some HD600's based on a recommendation and to my ears they have better balance across the frequency spectrum.  Interestingly I play bass guitar and I feel that the HD600 more accurately portrays what I hear coming out of my bass amp than the HE400 but then again I'm not a dubstep or hip hop guy and am not fond of synth bass.  I had rev. 2's btw.

 

I got the one with white plastic rig, don't know which revision it is. I suppose they only send rev.2's now?

 

I listen mainly to rock (and its derivatives) as well. The Wall is in my burn-in playlist so I could listen briefly to few tracks of the album and this is clearly apparent. I think "muffled" is the best adjective to describe the vocals I hear... That's a shame, this album is pure wonder with the HE-500 :'(

 

I didn't recall the HE-4 to sound in a such way on rock... The mids were recessed too, but they were not so "muffled". That's too bad, the 400s are clearly the better headphones in a technical standpoint but I'm not sure I can get used to its tonal balance :/

 

I sent the 4s for repair (one earcup literally detatched itself from the head-band...) but when the replacement pair comme back I might do a quick round-up review between the 3, with the new velour pads, of course (I have 5 pairs).

post #2973 of 18328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

 

I got the one with white plastic rig, don't know which revision it is. I suppose they only send rev.2's now?

 

I listen mainly to rock (and its derivatives) as well. The Wall is in my burn-in playlist so I could listen briefly to few tracks of the album and this is clearly apparent. I think "muffled" is the best adjective to describe the vocals I hear... That's a shame, this album is pure wonder with the HE-500 :'(

 

I didn't recall the HE-4 to sound in a such way on rock... The mids were recessed too, but they were not so "muffled". That's too bad, the 400s are clearly the better headphones in a technical standpoint but I'm not sure I can get used to its tonal balance :/

 

I sent the 4s for repair (one earcup literally detatched itself from the head-band...) but when the replacement pair comme back I might do a quick round-up review between the 3, with the new velour pads, of course (I have 5 pairs).

 

You have five pair of HFM? eek.gif

post #2974 of 18328

I wish I had :D

 

No I have 5 pairs of velour pads :p

post #2975 of 18328
Thread Starter 

Oh, sorry. biggrin.gif I think that the cold medicine I'm taking is causing some delirium. On a more positive note, I won't be doing much work today so that's more time to rock the hp's!!

post #2976 of 18328
Change your sig. No more E17! tongue.gif
post #2977 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

 

I got the one with white plastic rig, don't know which revision it is. I suppose they only send rev.2's now?

 

I listen mainly to rock (and its derivatives) as well. The Wall is in my burn-in playlist so I could listen briefly to few tracks of the album and this is clearly apparent. I think "muffled" is the best adjective to describe the vocals I hear... That's a shame, this album is pure wonder with the HE-500 

All this talk about recessed mids and muffled mids genuinely baffles me. True the upper midrange recession (or whatever one may choose to call this sort of tuning) most certainly affects the presentation of female vocals a little, and I most certainly understand why folks might complain about that, but that's the extent of my understanding; male vocals, on the other hand, have more presence and energy than I've heard on any other headphone. Period. That's right: it has more presence than even the hd800 or the he500. Now I suppose, if your thing is the upper mid-range, and all the harmonics that fall into those registers, then indeed the he-400 will sound a little uninspiring, perhaps even a little veiled (though that's not how I would describe it). But to say that the he-400 has recessed mids is a little misleading, imho (note: I'm not referring to anyone in particular here--I'm just trying to address this recessed mids business). The Denon D2000's have recessed mids; the Beyer DT770's have recessed mids. And for the record, I just wouldn't put the he-400 in the same category with those headphones. I say all this for the benefit of folks who will read "recessed mids" and instantly think "the he-400 is not for me then." 


Edited by Madmollusk - 12/12/12 at 7:05am
post #2978 of 18328
I would quote for truth, but it's unnecessary.
post #2979 of 18328

well I'd call for a graph then, either the mids on the 400's are recessed or the mids on the hd600's are

accentuated.  They are clearly different in volume to me.  I can only say I've never in my life noticed a high

hat being louder than a vocal, and this is on several different amps.  I have to assume every one of these

drivers is manufactured with an identical frequency response...or should I assume that?

 

from what I've read on here I think it's important to know which revision driver you have else comparisons

may be entirely invalid.

post #2980 of 18328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I would quote for truth, but it's unnecessary.

 

MLE, you very funny guy!! Make me laugh. Oh, and I would own you in COD btw. tongue.gif

post #2981 of 18328
E17? LIAR! BETRAYER.
post #2982 of 18328

It does kind of sound like a veil is being removed when you mess around with an EQ in the recessed region. The overall sound isn't veiled, but there is clearly a recessed region, you can't deny that. It can make some vocals and electric guitar stuff sound a few steps back.

 

I'm still working on smoothing it out myself, but there's an extremely nasty drop and channel inbalance around 2kHz that is impossible to tame without destroying the rest of the FR. What I have so far sounds good to me though.

post #2983 of 18328
Thread Starter 

Just a head's up to any who were interested...I will no longer be working on the development of new pads for the he400/HFM series for reasons that I can't share here. If anyone is interested in becoming an active participant in the process and would be willing to "loan" their he400 to such a company in exchange for some perks (and possibly worldwide fame) please pm me. 

 

The development of the pads are still in progress. I personally just won't be involved any longer.

 

FYI...

 

Matt

post #2984 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmollusk View Post

; male vocals, on the other hand, have more presence and energy than I've heard on any other headphone. Period. That's right: it has more presence than even the hd800 or the he500.

 

This is not how I heard it and I won't take it back. At the moment, male vocals (I didn't try female for now) sound distant and muffled, which makes the presentation "heavy". You can get similar result when you turn up the subwoofer on a cheap 2.1 system while watching movies: the speech is hard to understand (again, the sound is heavy).

 

Either you have a very special pair of HE-400 or I have a faulty one, in my case, there is no comparison with my 500s in this regard. Period.

 

The HE-400 are just too dark for me for the moment. I might end up loving it as much as I love the 500s if something happens during burn-in, but for now, at least for the pair I have (which might not be the same as everyone's. Hifiman already showed some inconsistencies in their manufacturing process), the voicing is not entirely to my liking.


Edited by Clemmaster - 12/12/12 at 8:25am
post #2985 of 18328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

This is not how I heard it and I won't take it back. At the moment, male vocals (I didn't try female for now) sound distant and muffled, which makes the presentation "heavy". You can get similar result when you turn up the subwoofer on a cheap 2.1 system while watching movies: the speech is hard to understand (again, the sound is heavy).

Either you have a very special pair of HE-400 or I have a faulty one, in my case, there is no comparison with my 500s in this regard. Period.

The HE-400 are just too dark for me for the moment. I might end up loving it as much as I love the 500s if something happens during burn-in, but for now, at least for the pair I have (which might not be the same as everyone's. Hifiman already showed some inconsistencies in their manufacturing process), the voicing is not entirely to my liking.

I've also noticed that with male vocals.
When listening on my AKG or Sennheiser's male vocals sound more together, as like one piece of literature. But on the HE-400's, it's sounds like speed bumps. Sometimes i hear a slight muffle in their presentation along with some distortion (mainly male vocals)

On some Pop songs where there is a overflow of upper mids, the HE-400's would bury almost everything else and screech the upper trebles. Hurts my ears. (But i've only found this with 1-2 songs)

I wouldn't say they sound distant though. I've noticed on certain tracks however, the HE-400 to be a little more distant, but it never distances itself as much as my AKG Q701 does.
The HE-400's are somewhat dark, less now than prior to burn in & velour pads.
Edited by cssarrow - 12/12/12 at 9:58am
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