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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 185

post #2761 of 18680
Thread Starter 

^^ Point taken. I have been guilty of this thinking that I was helping the retailer and the buyer to make a connection, but it's only fair to think that the retailer may not wish to make good on sale prices that have expired. Fair enough...

post #2762 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by BearWant View Post


I've seen in discussion from some of the posters on both HE-400 threads that this headphone benefits with more power.  That may be an oversimplification because there was a lot of technical talk behind that leaving me more confused than enlightened.  That's why I was questioning if a old NAD amp would be enough and secondly if its enough would it be an appropriate match.  So you would give the setup the thumbs up?  Also any other dap/amp options that I might consider, as I said I don't require walk-around portability, just decent transportability.  The 02/ODAC combination seemed very appealing, but it is not available on AMAZON.


Not sure why you have a preference for Amazon, but JDS Labs sells complete O2/ODAC setups. 

post #2763 of 18680

Holy moly, the audinst HUD-MX1 is in the country, it's only been a week and a half since I ordered them! Customs are fast this time!

post #2764 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

I've already been through the same issue. If you are already watching movies on them, through your receiver, and you love the sound, save your money. Movies can have a very high dynamic range, and if your current setup is loud enough, it should be more than enough for music listening also. Also, the receiver is going to use higher quality DACs than a lot of headphone amp/DAC combos, which are somewhat more limited.

 

In my case, I went with an O2 amp because my major listening is with a computer. The sound quality is excellent, but the dedicated headphone amp was too weak for all listening conditions (anything with high dynamic range). The O2 is the only amp around the $200 dollar price point which I could find that put out enough power to drive just about anything.

 

If you are really wanting a DAC/Amp combo, I would spring for the ODAC ($285), with all less expensive options I've checked out a distant second. If it had to be cheaper, it would probably be something from Fiio, but in our case, their tendency for high output impedance is not ideal. Just remember that the ODAC, like most DAC/AMP combos, expects to connect from a USB or 3.5mm source.

Thanks, I think I'll save my money for some upgrades to my gaming PC. This receiver is very powerful, at a little over half volume it gets earsplittingly loud! And the bass is definitely there, actually everything is very punchy and controlled unlike other sources I've tried. This receiver seems to be very capable of controlling these headphones, so I guess I'm good. Might sell my monitor and get the ASUS VG278H

post #2765 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy895 View Post

Thanks, I think I'll save my money for some upgrades to my gaming PC. This receiver is very powerful, at a little over half volume it gets earsplittingly loud! And the bass is definitely there, actually everything is very punchy and controlled unlike other sources I've tried. This receiver seems to be very capable of controlling these headphones, so I guess I'm good. Might sell my monitor and get the ASUS VG278H

This is off topic, but wouldn't an ultra high-res monitor be better for that price?

post #2766 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniping View Post

This is off topic, but wouldn't an ultra high-res monitor be better for that price?

 

You'd be giving up a 120hz refresh rate and 3D capabilities. But still, I wouldn't go for that particular 120hz monitor. I wouldn't go bigger than 24" at all for 1080p.

post #2767 of 18680

Got my HE-400 yesterday.  Bought it in mint condition at a really good price but that's besides the point.  First real good open phones other than the Grado 60i and they sound wonderful.  Can't play these at night though as the sound bleeds and have to revert back to my AKG K550's.

 

I power this with a E17/E09k and does sound better with the extra power.  I use Foobar 2000 with the E17 Asio drivers.  Music is at least 256k mp3's or flac.

 

Really impressed.  Strange that the guy from Innerfidelity hates these but likes the K550's.  Both sound great to me.

post #2768 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by BearWant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post


From the PC's USB out -> HRT Music Streamer II asynchronous DAC (US$150)  -> NAD receiver

 

will be better sound quality - in my opinion - than anything mentioned above.

 

(Note:  The Music Streamer will not work from a smartphone or tablet.)


That seems a really nice option.  Problem being that using the NAD as my dedicated amp I'm confining myself to at home listening only.  Those old NAD recievers are anything, but portable.  Do you see the HRT DAC as being that much of a departure from the E17?


Here is Headfonia.com's Mike Ting on entry level amplifiers for the HE-400:

Quote:
I tried the HE-400 with all the entry level amplifiers, including the JDSLabs Cmoy, C421, and the O2, the Fiio E10, E11 and the E17, the Ibasso D-Zero and the Digizoid Zo. My favorite for the task is definitely the JDSLabs O2 as it has both the sound quality and the impact level, while the second best amp I found for the HE-400 among the bunch was the Fiio E11. Like Lieven, I also enjoyed the HE-400 out of the Fiio E10, but bass impact is not as good as from the E11 or E17.
post #2769 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy895 View Post

Thanks, I think I'll save my money for some upgrades to my gaming PC. This receiver is very powerful, at a little over half volume it gets earsplittingly loud! And the bass is definitely there, actually everything is very punchy and controlled unlike other sources I've tried. This receiver seems to be very capable of controlling these headphones, so I guess I'm good. Might sell my monitor and get the ASUS VG278H

 

I have the Crossover 27Q from ebay seller accessorieswhole. There's a huge thread on them over at overclock. It's beautiful. Same panels as the 27" iMac/Thunderbolt display. I have not spotted a single bad pixel after 7 months. Not 120hz though if you really need that. It looks like the price has gone up just a bit since I got mine but if you email the seller they usually provide a discount.


Edited by FuzzyD - 12/4/12 at 8:31pm
post #2770 of 18680

I'm too used to 120Hz to go back, there's a lot of issues with my current monitor using my Nvidia card because this monitor only has a Displayport in and an HDMI in, and nvidia doesn't seem to play well with DP. I have a friend who has an AMD card that wants to buy my monitor. The price for the ASUS is pretty ridiculous, but it is the best available, plus I've always wanted to try 3D gaming, Nvidia refuses to support my monitor for that, and it would be really nice to watch 3D blu-rays. I've tried a 3D bluray with my current monitor and there was a horrid amount of ghosting and the glasses it came with were very dark. I really wish those 120Hz overclockable Catleaps from 120Hz.net were always available instead of selling in small batches, it's probably worth it to invest in mass producing them, they're 120Hz 1440p monitors for under $500! Even if they were twice the price they would still sell like crazy.
^Off Thread Topic

Thoughts of these headphones from someone who has never owned audiophile grade headphones:
OMG, HOLY Ship!! There's soo much BASSS, (*cough* umm, jk. sorry)
They sound better and more accurate than IMAX's 12,000 watts to me.
Gaming with these is incredible, especially if the sounds the game uses are high quality, being surrounded by HiQ sounds is pretty damn nice with these phones' soundstage, imaging, and separation.
I was watching a concert on the Palladia channel and...Wow! With the separation and detail in these phones you can hear every individual clapping, screaming, singing, etc.
I love how low the bass extends, I'm re-listening to my music and hearing a whole new layer to the music I haven't heard before!
The sound in general is incredible, everything is so crisp and perfect sounding, I love the control of Orthodynamic drivers.

What sucks is I'll never be able to go back lol and if I wanted to upgrade, for it to be worth it to me, I would have to spend about double the price! I've officially been sucked into the world and obsession of audiophiles!
 


Edited by jimmy895 - 12/5/12 at 12:27am
post #2771 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy895 View Post

I'm too used to 120Hz to go back, there's a lot of issues with my current monitor using my Nvidia card because this monitor only has a Displayport in and an HDMI in, and nvidia doesn't seem to play well with DP. I have a friend who has an AMD card that wants to buy my monitor. The price for the ASUS is pretty ridiculous, but it is the best available, plus I've always wanted to try 3D gaming, Nvidia refuses to support my monitor for that, and it would be really nice to watch 3D blu-rays. I've tried a 3D bluray with my current monitor and there was a horrid amount of ghosting and the glasses it came with were very dark. I really wish those 120Hz overclockable Catleaps from 120Hz.net were always available instead of selling in small batches, it's probably worth it to invest in mass producing them, they're 120Hz 1440p monitors for under $500! Even if they were $800, they would still sell like crazy.
^Off Thread Topic

Thoughts of these headphones from someone who has never owned audiophile grade headphones:
OMG, HOLY Ship!! There's soo much BASSS, (*cough* umm, jk. sorry)
They sound better and more accurate than IMAX's 12,000 watts to me.
Gaming with these is incredible, especially if the sounds the game uses are high quality, being surrounded by HiQ sounds is pretty damn nice with these phones' soundstage, imaging, and separation.
I was watching a concert on the Palladia channel and...Wow! With the separation and detail in these phones you can hear every individual clapping, screaming, singing, etc.
I love how low the bass extends, I'm re-listening to my music and hearing a whole new layer to the music I haven't heard before!
The sound in general is incredible, everything is so crisp and perfect sounding, I love the control of this driver technology.

What sucks is I'll never be able to go back lol and if I wanted to upgrade, for it to be worth it to me, I would have to spend about double the price! I've officially been sucked into the world and obsession of audiophiles!
 

Definitely not a bad starting point though; lots of people burn through hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars before finding headphones that are even remotely close to what they are looking for in the first place.

post #2772 of 18680
Thread Starter 

Hundreds wouldn't cover the tax on what I've spent...redface.gif

post #2773 of 18680

KStuart -

 

Bass impact of E11 and E17 is better, and what they have in common in low output impedance -

 

E11 has ~0.5 Ohm output impedance and about 100 mWs for HE-400s

E17 has ~1 Ohm output impedance and about 100 mWs or so for the HE-400s

 

The O2 has low output impedance, and would have about a half a watt for the HE-400s. So, a good lesson in why it is critical to look for low output impedance, even if your other phones are a bit higher.

post #2774 of 18680
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

KStuart -

 

Bass impact of E11 and E17 is better, and what they have in common in low output impedance -

 

E11 has ~0.5 Ohm output impedance and about 100 mWs for HE-400s

E17 has ~1 Ohm output impedance and about 100 mWs or so for the HE-400s

 

The O2 has low output impedance, and would have about a half a watt for the HE-400s. So, a good lesson in why it is critical to look for low output impedance, even if your other phones are a bit higher.


But he said that the E10 bass impact was not as good as the E11 or E17, and yet the E10 has 0.3ohm output impedance and 150mWs.

 

(The Bass impact in my desktop amp is excellent, and it is 16 ohm output impedance (and 1 watt), but I have not compared it to any amp other than the headphone jack of an Onkyo A/V receiver, which was nowheres as clear.)

 

The "output impedance" worship is just another manifestation of the incredibly popular concept "I really really wish I could just choose audio components by looking up measurements".   Note that the Bottlehead Crack has 120 ohm output impedance, and thus according to Mr. Measurement, it is "bad" for all headphones made (whereas it is widely considered to be one of the best headphone amps).


Edited by kstuart - 12/5/12 at 12:04pm
post #2775 of 18680

Ok well, I got my eagerly anticipated HE-400 today.  Now, my headphone collection includes the Sennheiser HD650 and my favourite closed back headphone the Beyer Dynamic DT 770 Pro.  I particularly like the DT 770s because they get to the heart of the music and present it as a coherent whole.  Anyway, I’ll cut to the chase on this: the first thing I noticed when I put the HE-400 on (before even plugging into my headphone amp) was a cuppy resonance – similar to if I’d cupped my hands over my ears (try it) – none of my other headphones do this, they all damp this resonance out.  On first listening to the HE-400, this cuppines was there and dominated the sound, ie although it was obvious the HE-400s drivers were excellent, there was a lack of cohesion to the music which spoilt the musical experience, in my opinion because of this annoying cuppy resonance.

 

I’m just thinking that maybe so much research and development has gone into getting the drivers right for the HD-400 that the headphone 101 of getting the interface to the ear has been missed.  Thoughts..

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