**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 166

Speaking of HE-6, all the HE-6 followers are pulling the speaker amp card on Tyll's 'comparing world class headphones review.'  It'd be interesting if Tyll revisited the HE-6 with whatever speaker amp the HE-6 are known to sound good off of, and sees if he agrees or disagrees with the speaker amp followers.

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Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens 

 

 

Exactly. I wish more folks could take this stance.

 

The problem is if I write a wishy-washy review, it'll do damage to what for many are a headphone that delivers good value. So it's really better to just shut up and let the rest of the market do its thing.

 

Also, I do keep coming back here to remind myself to give them another try some day soon. Maybe I was just having a bad day when I tried them previously.  Maybe listening to your comments will cause me to be better predisposed to enjoy these cans for what they are. I'm on the fence and know it. Not gonna solidify my tenuous position with a review when a might like them more later.

 

Have fun guys.

I, for one, genuinely appreciate your clarification, Tyll (I'm sure we all do for that matter)! You're a class-act, and I'm looking forward to your hd-580, hd-600, and hd-650 review! Keep up all the good work, and again, Thanks and Happy Holidays to you and your family. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

Speaking of HE-6, all the HE-6 followers are pulling the speaker amp card on Tyll's 'comparing world class headphones review.'  It'd be interesting if Tyll revisited the HE-6 with whatever speaker amp the HE-6 are known to sound good off of, and sees if he agrees or disagrees with the speaker amp followers.

I agree.  It doesn't even have to be a "speaker amp" but should be one of the half dozen or so headphone amps that actually deliver almost enough power.  EF6, Dark Star, maybe Mjolnir (I have to do my own analysis of that one), etc.  Otherwise for price-performance the Emotiva Mini-X has gained a lot of popularity, though I've seen at least one person who strongly prefers Mjolnir to the Emotiva, and others that find that Mjolnir still pales next to some other speaker amps.

MJ and a few others deliver 5W into it which is "sort of almost kind of enough".  But the ability to deliver continuous current with reserves for the peak swings seems to be the sticking point.  Most of the HE-6 followers are in agreement that it's all about the power supply in terms of power (in terms of performance it's no different than any other headphone/speaker.)  And most headamps just don't have a power supply meant for that kind of continuous current draw, because for no other headphone do they need it.

No, it must be a speaker amp, otherwise the same speaker-amp crowed will call tomfoolery again.  

Who cares what so and so thinks??  I mean the guy already stated he has no love for the 400s.  Does the 400 club care about that?  NO...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

No, it must be a speaker amp, otherwise the same speaker-amp crowed will call tomfoolery again.  

True enough...

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Originally Posted by preproman 

Who cares what so and so thinks??  I mean the guy already stated he has no love for the 400s.  Does the 400 club care about that?  NO...

True enough, and many of us often enough disagree with any "official" reviews that any review is kind of meaningless.  On the other hand, I'm not sure how an objective review site can be a really objective review site if it only reviews products it already knows it likes beforehand.  Isn't the idea to draw the differences between technically good and bad and who would like it even if it's not to the reviewer's preference? 

Double edged sword.  Reviewing products you don't like is unfair to the product because preference makes you dislike aspects of it someone else might like.  Meanwhile reviewing only products you like doesn't provide a balanced point of reference across all products or at least popular ones...it makes it more like a blog of things that the guy that runs it likes.  Ideally to make IF "more complete" one of the "staff" should be trying to review most of the things that need to be reviewed....  Ideally an experienced critic should be able to view the product not from the perspective of if they themselves like it but the ability to identify who would like it and what would be liked and disliked about it.  Conversely if not possible, then an alternate reviewer like Skylab should be able to pick up the opposite tastes of Tyll etc to at least get perspectives on the likes and dislikes of someone who likes profile A versus the reviewer that likes profile B.

It's not a knock on Tyll's decision and reasoning behind not reviewing HE-400.  Just some musing on what would make IF a better resource in these types of situations.

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Originally Posted by MattTCG 

Personally, I'd hope to see Tyll review the he400 in the hopes that a favorable review would bring more potential users to what I feel is a great hp. His opinion is well respected in the community and more headfiers looking to drop $400 are more likely to value his opinion than mine, for obvious reasons. 

 

Of course there'd be no gaurantee that he offer a favorable view. I don't know. I'd like to see the continued success of the he400 and the company in general. I feel that they/HFM offer a very enjoyable and compelling product that has in some ways flown under the radar. I appreciate how they handled the recall and would like them to be able to continue to improve and offer even better products in the near future. Successful products generate more capital they hopefully results in more R&D for better future products. 

I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to the punch. +1 ^^^^^

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Originally Posted by IEMCrazy 

 

True enough, and many of us often enough disagree with any "official" reviews that any review is kind of meaningless.  On the other hand, I'm not sure how an objective review site can be a really objective review site if it only reviews products it already knows it likes beforehand.  Isn't the idea to draw the differences between technically good and bad and who would like it even if it's not to the reviewer's preference? 

I'm not sure there's anything that's really objective and valuable simultaneously.  Even the measurement interpretation is somewhat subjective. 

So no, I don't think the idea is to determine what's technically good, I think the idea is to determine what sounds good and, sadly (because it would be so much easier if it was purely objective), that's subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

 

I'm not a measurement or graph guy tbh. I do appreciate their value though. I prefer to plug in a hp into a quality amp, put on my favorite tunes and see what kind of response it gives me and I get from it. This really an easy formula. The sound signature and comfort of the hp make me happy or they don't. 

Real world plug and play over time experience is IMO the ultimate test. However, there are quite a few products out there. Measurements and graphs may help in roughly narrowing down the search.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens 

I'm not sure there's anything that's really objective and valuable simultaneously.  Even the measurement interpretation is somewhat subjective. 

 

So no, I don't think the idea is to determine what's technically good, I think the idea is to determine what sounds good and, sadly (because it would be so much easier if it was purely objective), that's subjective.

Indeed, and I think what sounds good largely depends on how individuals process sound.  I mentioned this earlier, but maybe it has enough relevance for me to mention again: everyone literally has unique hearing capacities. And even if we all had "perfect" hearing, hypothetically speaking, no two people would still hear things identically: biological diversity alone guarantees this. But I suppose there must be a "normal" or an "average" when it comes to hearing, and so I would  think that objective data would have some relevance, at least to the extent that you, or folks like you, require some basis--i.e. some fixed and measurable standards--to reliable characterize a given headphones sound and how that sound will most likely relate to the average persons perception of it. But I understand what you're saying: the subjective and objective blend together at some point; there are just too many variables--biologic and psychoacoustic variables--to ever say Headphone X will always sound "veiled" or "bright" etc to every listener. And when all is said and done, I think this might be the best argument for subjectivity and headphone appreciation. 

Edited to make a lot more sense. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

^^ Wow!! I had actually read that article way back before I bought the he400 and completely forgotten about the reference to the grill mod once the topic came up on this thread. Nice work Jerg!!

Basically the stock grill cloth makes a huge difference. I was hoping it wouldn't since it offers dust protection. I had the cloth (ripped off from stock grills and taped) on the drivers for a little while, but ended up taking them off because they killed the 'air' of the sound. I highly doubt other types of cloth would fair better.

That, on top of Fang's own words in the 6moon 5LE grill about driver longevity without dust protection, means that ultimately my recommendation of grill mod would be bare open grills sourced from dollarama garbage bin mesh. Simple, concise, and maximizes the sound from these cans. It's analogous to overclocking your GPU in video-gaming, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg 

 

Basically the stock grill cloth makes a huge difference. I was hoping it wouldn't since it offers dust protection. I had the cloth (ripped off from stock grills and taped) on the drivers for a little while, but ended up taking them off because they killed the 'air' of the sound. I highly doubt other types of cloth would fair better.

 

 

That, on top of Fang's own words in the 6moon 5LE grill about driver longevity without dust protection, means that ultimately my recommendation of grill mod would be bare open grills sourced from dollarama garbage bin mesh. Simple, concise, and maximizes the sound from these cans. It's analogous to overclocking your GPU in video-gaming, really.

Try some filter paper! The kind people use for cooking (really). I think they're made out of rice or something. Honestly can't hear a difference between the open grills and these.

I used pantyhose (not used) behind my mesh. Thin coat of glue, stretched them tight and then just held in place for a couple of seconds, trimmed them around the mesh insert and driver is protected.  Actually used the same pair that I protected the drivers on the HD650 with. Thank you to the wife for this contribution!