**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 156

I just got comformation on the rev version of HE-400 that my local distributor sells.

It's rev 2, so I can finally buy it, I'm also ordering the velour pads :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

I wonder if Hifiman could ever experiment with memory foam in their velour pads.  Whatever they got in their velour pads is extremely firm, and it's starting to get to me on the comfort front.  I like the fact that they're firm and that the pads won't deform over time, I'm a huge stickler for deformed pads, but I also don't want a pad to suffer on possible fit, seal and comfort issues if it's too firm.

I know AKG uses memory foam in a few models (including the new K702 Anniversary Edition.)  Trouble with memory foam is the warmer it gets, the softer it gets.  So the longer you wear them the more they change.  It's both good and bad.  Good because it forms to your face more.  Bad because it changes the position of the driver over time, so you'd want it to be extra thick so the ear doesn't touch the driver housing more than is needed.  Also it tends to store heat...even the open cell stuff.

Try to find some of the OLD HFM pads for comparison.  Both the material of the velour, and the foam stuffing inside were substantially superior quality to the new ones.   The new ones are made out of dollar store grade materials more or less, especially in contrast to the old ones.  The trouble with the old ones was the horrible attachment system and the exposed hard glue on the inside of the cup.  They were made horribly out of good materials.  The new ones are made well out of horrible materials.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

 

Of course any new pads would use the same fit system and work across the hifiman line. The R&D process currently will target an improvement for the he400, although we can hopefully see some improvement across other HFM hp's. 

I didn't notice the original post that started this discussion.  Are you going into the headphone accessories business?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleybob217 

Drummer here, and yes, that's absolutely true. That's actually why I'm buying this thing, cymbals sound incredibly real.

I'm not a drummer but I used to play in metal bands before. For me the cymbals sound from HE-400 is a bit harsh and piercing on my ears. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawrster 

It usually isn't the cost of materials that's the pricing. It's the R&D or in this case making the pads after acquiring the materials. Take a look inside your amp or dac and the cost of materials will not be near the cost you bought it for unless it was DIY. I remember some article about the cost of an iphone was much less than the msrp. That will always be the case with pricing. 

To be honest, it's all about profit margin. R&D takes some cost but that can't justify the high cost of gadgets. After some point, it's all about profit. I used to live in China and still have friends there who's in the manufacture business, you wouldn't believe how low the cost is to make some of the products that's sold in the West.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbkmog 

To be honest, it's all about profit margin. R&D takes some cost but that can't justify the high cost of gadgets. After some point, it's all about profit. I used to live in China and still have friends there who's in the manufacture business, you wouldn't believe how low the cost is to make some of the products that's sold in the West.

It's certainly true that the cost of large manufacture is low, but there's the combined budgets of importing, tariffs, taxes, paying for the office to do it all in, paying for the electricity there, paying staff, paying payroll taxes, paying taxes for tax paying privileges, paying taxes for employees taxes for paying tax paying privileges, plus R&D, marketing, legal defenses from the dozen or so places that will sue you to claim your product is really their product, and the 10 levels of extra labeling and tagging of the extremely deadly consequences of using the product, only in the People's Republic of California .  By the time it's all said and done, the huge "profit margins" over the cost of manufacture are often very very thin on products, despite how it would look otherwise.  It's just that the money over the cost of manufacture is hidden into all kinds of other things.  Add onto that with companies like Sennheiser the kickbacks for dealers built into the price as a form of incentive/marketing, and a $10 product can easily sell for $100 and turn only moderate profit, but it looks like gauging if you look at just the cost of manufacture.

Somehow those that never cease cheering for "taxing evil companies" more never seem to understand that there's no such thing as taxing a company, it just makes the cost of products go up

Quote:

Originally Posted by IEMCrazy 

 

It's certainly true that the cost of large manufacture is low, but there's the combined budgets of importing, tariffs, taxes, paying for the office to do it all in, paying for the electricity there, paying staff, paying payroll taxes, paying taxes for tax paying privileges, paying taxes for employees taxes for paying tax paying privileges, plus R&D, marketing, legal defenses from the dozen or so places that will sue you to claim your product is really their product, and the 10 levels of extra labeling and tagging of the extremely deadly consequences of using the product, only in the People's Republic of California .  By the time it's all said and done, the huge "profit margins" over the cost of manufacture are often very very thin on products, despite how it would look otherwise.  It's just that the money over the cost of manufacture is hidden into all kinds of other things.  Add onto that with companies like Sennheiser the kickbacks for dealers built into the price as a form of incentive/marketing, and a $10 product can easily sell for $100 and turn only moderate profit, but it looks like gauging if you look at just the cost of manufacture.

 

Somehow those that never cease cheering for "taxing evil companies" more never seem to understand that there's no such thing as taxing a company, it just makes the cost of products go up

Eh, you make it seem like nobody can ever sell a cheap product.

Sure you need to look beyond the costs of materials and manufacturing, but a lot of audiophile products are marked up just because they can be. It's actually a decent marketing strategy to make your product really expensive in the audiophile world, because people look at it and say "Oh, this costs a ton it must be better than this other product!". 

I assure you that with things like $200 cables and $100 pads the makers are making a very comfortable profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbkmog 

I'm not a drummer but I used to play in metal bands before. For me the cymbals sound from HE-400 is a bit harsh and piercing on my ears. 

Have you suffered any hearing loss from playing in a band?  Also, keep in mind, that there have been some posts about an apparent version 3 of the HE-400s.  I haven't followed this thread too closely for awhile, so I don't know what the conclusion ended up as.  But, that version did have some apparent sound changes that have been noted on the upper frequency end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wje 

 

Have you suffered any hearing loss from playing in a band?  Also, keep in mind, that there have been some posts about an apparent version 3 of the HE-400s.  I haven't followed this thread too closely for awhile, so I don't know what the conclusion ended up as.  But, that version did have some apparent sound changes that have been noted on the upper frequency end.

They were recalled and replaced with rev2 (new production of course). Still the treble is intentionally coloured even without the rev3 ringing issue, I can see how some perceive it as a bit too shrill or tizzy. Optimally HE400s would sound perfect if the 13kHz peak in the upper treble is toned down just 3 or 4 dB, IMO.

Cymbals are pretty harsh and piercing on the ears in real life so...

I have yet to have the 400s sound harsh or piercing, the treble is sharp, but the resonance issues are minimal (unlike closed/semi closed). Even during congested/heavily mixed parts of a song it's fine, where as both my denons had a tendency to make things harsh or slightly piercing in that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushNerd 

I have yet to have the 400s sound harsh or piercing, the treble is sharp, but the resonance issues are minimal (unlike closed/semi closed). Even during congested/heavily mixed parts of a song it's fine, where as both my denons had a tendency to make things harsh or slightly piercing in that situation.

i have to pitch in on this...the he400 can sound a bit harsch when paired with wrong amp...as it has a very elavated tremble in comparision to for instance a lcd3 or a HE500.but thats the character of the beast..u have a lyr..thats a warm sounding amp..so it will never sound piercing or harsh...as its partly tubey...if u have a very analytical amp it can be a bit fatique on the ears...a he300 would pair better in that case...but also ur ears can be different then his..some people are very sensitive to a certain amount of tremble..me on the contrary love a bit of tremble..but as i said..the amp and or source equipment can make or break the he400...as is the case with all 'better grade' headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IEMCrazy 

 

It's certainly true that the cost of large manufacture is low, but there's the combined budgets of importing, tariffs, taxes, paying for the office to do it all in, paying for the electricity there, paying staff, paying payroll taxes, paying taxes for tax paying privileges, paying taxes for employees taxes for paying tax paying privileges, plus R&D, marketing, legal defenses from the dozen or so places that will sue you to claim your product is really their product, and the 10 levels of extra labeling and tagging of the extremely deadly consequences of using the product, only in the People's Republic of California .  By the time it's all said and done, the huge "profit margins" over the cost of manufacture are often very very thin on products, despite how it would look otherwise.  It's just that the money over the cost of manufacture is hidden into all kinds of other things.  Add onto that with companies like Sennheiser the kickbacks for dealers built into the price as a form of incentive/marketing, and a $10 product can easily sell for $100 and turn only moderate profit, but it looks like gauging if you look at just the cost of manufacture.

 

Somehow those that never cease cheering for "taxing evil companies" more never seem to understand that there's no such thing as taxing a company, it just makes the cost of products go up

Meh, whatever, I've heard it all before. No more corporate welfare make the bums pay their taxes like everyone else. If they can spend millions on white collar perks they can afford to pay their rightful share of the taxation pie.

An now back to the HifiMan HE-400

Has anyone here tried experimenting with some mobile amps from say Leckerton or ALO? I'm rather curious if this can will scale up with the right synergy.