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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 1023

post #15331 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

but the program is on your computer right? how would it know what frequency response the he400 is outputting?

 

Those things on the side of your head.

post #15332 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

 

Those things on the side of your head.

hahaah very funny. i meant do you just play some sort of tone that moves through the spectrum to hear where the boosts/lows are?

 

i wanted to download the program & try it out myself, but all the download links I found were filled w/ bloatware/malware.

post #15333 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

This is what I mean (ignore the bass area I deleted that point)... Small curve on the midrange and everything else lower.

 

 

 

Yeah I think I will give this up, don't think it will work. Going into so much detail, the EQ isn't that accurate and affects other nearby frequencies, its never ending. Always seems to sound uneven in places. I will give your curve a try, should work OK. I think Audeze are bringing out a dac/amp that has a DSP correction circuit that will have their headphones programmed in it. Need something like that for the HE400.

 

I have heard a lot of high end headphones that I liked but I really like the HE400 (most of the time) and don't want to give it up. Its just a shame that it is so close that just a few shortcomings are ruining it. Maybe the new Hifiman models will be the answer or the Oppo. The LCDX/3/HD800 are all great too but overpriced.

 

money4me247, Nicholars wrote a guide..

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687845/how-to-equalise-your-headphones-using-electriq-parametric-equaliser

 

Here is a sinegen without the bloat, http://www.sendspace.com/file/5n3e74

post #15334 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

hahaah very funny. i meant do you just play some sort of tone that moves through the spectrum to hear where the boosts/lows are?

 

i wanted to download the program & try it out myself, but all the download links I found were filled w/ bloatware/malware.

 

Yeh you drag a bar with the mouse from 0-20khz and you listen for when it gets louder / quieter, you can then save each frequency and its volume is in DB and then when you have saved them all u can click through them to check that the volume is the same for each. Once you have got all that sorted out you can plot it onto the equaliser curve. It is quite time consuming and can be irritating to learn electriQ but it gives a much better result than using the 31 band graphic EQ. If you are lazy you can try one I posted but your HE400 / hearing might be different to mine so probably best to do it yourself, if you like tweaking things then it is quite fun.

post #15335 of 20006

Anybody here use the HE-400 with an Audio-GD NFB 11.32? I'm seriously considering it, but I'd like some impressions on the pairing.

post #15336 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

Yeah I think I will give this up, don't think it will work. Going into so much detail, the EQ isn't that accurate and affects other nearby frequencies, its never ending. Always seems to sound uneven in places. I will give your curve a try, should work OK. I think Audeze are bringing out a dac/amp that has a DSP correction circuit that will have their headphones programmed in it. Need something like that for the HE400.

 

I have heard a lot of high end headphones that I liked but I really like the HE400 (most of the time) and don't want to give it up. Its just a shame that it is so close that just a few shortcomings are ruining it. Maybe the new Hifiman models will be the answer or the Oppo. The LCDX/3/HD800 are all great too but overpriced.

 

money4me247, Nicholars wrote a guide..

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687845/how-to-equalise-your-headphones-using-electriq-parametric-equaliser

 

Here is a sinegen without the bloat, http://www.sendspace.com/file/5n3e74


MLXX - don't be a quitter!

 

Remember that the goal for "perfect" response is not a 0 dB variance peak-to-peak. I am willing to bet that if you can get to + or - 3 dB you are in the perceptually 'flat' range, since 3 dB is about the amount it takes for your ear to perceive a change in loudness. So, you could cut a frequency by 3 dB, and its neighbor could be 3 dB louder by comparison, and you would not necessarily perceive the imbalance negatively. Maybe a tonal / timbrel issue, but otherwise smoother than a comparable speaker with +- 6 dB variance or worse.

 

Part of the issue is probably the 'ringing' or poor damping of the phones' - known issues for planars. That is not correctable by EQ, unfortunately. That is also why different pads seem to impact the sound. Have you tried swapping for velour pads? Have you tried modding the pleathers? I suggest you do. Either method impacts the sound in a way I think you would notice. Just don't forget that listening to sine waves all day gets pretty annoying/fatiguing. At some point, you should be A/Bing your EQ with your selected tracks. Then you need to live with the EQ for awhile to see if you've really improved things. I am ALWAYS making small tweaks on other systems from time to time - it is hard for EQ to be "universal" when records vary so much in their quality. More bass, less bass, more treble, less treble . . . . .

 

I am going to the store later to look for polyfill / less dense foam to stuff into the ear pad to see if it can 'calm' them a tad in piano music. I am in the mood to screw around and see what, besides EQ, can make an appreciable change in the sound. I am wondering if cramming some foam strategically into the cups could help. But it is a good idea to make sure you have a known recording that is either a) a known awesome recording or b) a recording known to bring out the worst in speakers. Playing with materials / cutting holes and into headphones and what not is not different from 'deadening' a room in your house by adding thick carpet and wall panels. EQ is important, but some fatigue / unwanted sound could be reflections. Anyway.


Edited by MrMateoHead - 12/19/13 at 9:56am
post #15337 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdr529 View Post

manbear, you get 3x the power but that resister is dissipating 7x the power of the he-400 right? Resistance is proportional power, P = I^2 * R. What did it sound like with/without the adapter?


I actually noticed more clipping with the adapter. Even though the amp was outputting more power, the voltage divider formed by the resistor adapter was probably causing a net reduction. I'm not sure exactly what output voltage the Little Dot MKIII can swing though, so IDK how to calculate it. I sold the amp anyway, so I'm not that concerned... How are you getting this 7x number? 

post #15338 of 20006
double post
post #15339 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post
 


MLXX - don't be a quitter!

 

Remember that the goal for "perfect" response is not a 0 dB variance peak-to-peak. I am willing to bet that if you can get to + or - 3 dB you are in the perceptually 'flat' range, since 3 dB is about the amount it takes for your ear to perceive a change in loudness. So, you could cut a frequency by 3 dB, and its neighbor could be 3 dB louder by comparison, and you would not necessarily perceive the imbalance negatively. Maybe a tonal / timbrel issue, but otherwise smoother than a comparable speaker with +- 6 dB variance or worse.

 

Part of the issue is probably the 'ringing' or poor damping of the phones' - known issues for planars. That is not correctable by EQ, unfortunately. That is also why different pads seem to impact the sound. Have you tried swapping for velour pads? Have you tried modding the pleathers? I suggest you do. Either method impacts the sound in a way I think you would notice. Just don't forget that listening to sine waves all day gets pretty annoying/fatiguing. At some point, you should be A/Bing your EQ with your selected tracks. Then you need to live with the EQ for awhile to see if you've really improved things. I am ALWAYS making small tweaks on other systems from time to time - it is hard for EQ to be "universal" when records vary so much in their quality. More bass, less bass, more treble, less treble . . . . .

 

I am going to the store later to look for polyfill / less dense foam to stuff into the ear pad to see if it can 'calm' them a tad in piano music. I am in the mood to screw around and see what, besides EQ, can make an appreciable change in the sound. I am wondering if cramming some foam strategically into the cups could help. But it is a good idea to make sure you have a known recording that is either a) a known awesome recording or b) a recording known to bring out the worst in speakers. Playing with materials / cutting holes and into headphones and what not is not different from 'deadening' a room in your house by adding thick carpet and wall panels. EQ is important, but some fatigue / unwanted sound could be reflections. Anyway.

 

 

I am not quitting, in feb/march it will be 2 years since I have had them, I pre-ordered them before they were released. I have been using the velours all this time. Usually I can last about a week with the pleathers before I have to change back. This is why I have my doubts regarding the jergpad mod, it will make the pleathers sound better but whether I will like them better than the velours I am not sure. They are probably a must have for the HE500 though. If the Oppo turns out good and reasonably priced, I might find it hard to resist, since it also looks very comfortable. Yeath I realise EQ is not going to entirely fix them but I thought I would give it a shot. My biggest problem I have with them is sometimes I really love them and without changing a thing, a few days later I won't. Maybe my ears are getting tired or something.

post #15340 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post


Doing the math I guess I was a little conservative, it is more like 8.5x.

Because power is proportional to resistance, 300 ohm resister / 35 ohm he-400 = 8.57

the LD says they put out 350mW @ ~300Ohms so if you just assume we are at that maximum output number, 350mW / 8.57 = only about 40mW of power going to the headphones at max output which you probably needed in order get them to a reasonable volume.

LD says there would be 150mW @ 32 ohms, which should have gotten them a fair bit louder before clipping



Also, I haven't done electronics in a while so anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.
Edited by bdr529 - 12/19/13 at 11:01am
post #15341 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post
 

Anybody here use the HE-400 with an Audio-GD NFB 11.32? I'm seriously considering it, but I'd like some impressions on the pairing.

 

I have the 15.1 which has the same amp section but has the Wolfson dac (with the Tenor rather than the Via as in the 15.32 now). I got this before the 11 was released. The Wolfson is probably better suited to the HE400 because its not as bright as the Sabre. I think you are coming from the m-stage, I wouldn't bother with the 11.32 if I was you. I think you will find they will be very similar but the 11.32 will have more power. The Sabre dac is pretty good though. With my one, I really like the dac too, it is very smooth but the amp section I feel is average. I can use the dac out and pair it with other amps and then I can hear that the amp has a bit of a rolled off treble (probably helps the HE400 though). I compared it with other amps in the <$1000 and it was comparable so I got it (for $295 its good value). I think you need to go up in price quite a bit or just stick with the m-stage.

post #15342 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

I am not quitting, in feb/march it will be 2 years since I have had them, I pre-ordered them before they were released. I have been using the velours all this time. Usually I can last about a week with the pleathers before I have to change back. This is why I have my doubts regarding the jergpad mod, it will make the pleathers sound better but whether I will like them better than the velours I am not sure. They are probably a must have for the HE500 though. If the Oppo turns out good and reasonably priced, I might find it hard to resist, since it also looks very comfortable. Yeath I realise EQ is not going to entirely fix them but I thought I would give it a shot. My biggest problem I have with them is sometimes I really love them and without changing a thing, a few days later I won't. Maybe my ears are getting tired or something.


I hear ya. I've only had mine for closing in on a year or so (predominantly with Velour). I am considering abandoning the pleathers again, though I do think they are a little warmer / fatter sounding.

 

Listening to Agnes Obel again, it seems clear that these thing are resonating pretty strongly (Glare) somewhere in the midrange despite my EQ and modded pleater (I cut more holes today). If I could lock in that frequency I would probably have a better understanding of what about these phones is sometimes so fatiguing. That must be why I've never gotten rid of my Sennheisers. Not a bad thing to get away from the HE's once in awhile.

post #15343 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

I have the 15.1 which has the same amp section but has the Wolfson dac (with the Tenor rather than the Via as in the 15.32 now). I got this before the 11 was released. The Wolfson is probably better suited to the HE400 because its not as bright as the Sabre. I think you are coming from the m-stage, I wouldn't bother with the 11.32 if I was you. I think you will find they will be very similar but the 11.32 will have more power. The Sabre dac is pretty good though. With my one, I really like the dac too, it is very smooth but the amp section I feel is average. I can use the dac out and pair it with other amps and then I can hear that the amp has a bit of a rolled off treble (probably helps the HE400 though). I compared it with other amps in the <$1000 and it was comparable so I got it (for $295 its good value). I think you need to go up in price quite a bit or just stick with the m-stage.

 

The amp section is average? I was under the impression it was very good. Anyway I'm still debating whether it's worth the upgrade. I know I wouldn't hear that much of an improvement with the HE-400 because of it's efficiency, but I just like the idea of having my amp and dac in one unit plus the extra power wouldn't hurt. The M-stage is quite tame when it comes to raw power.

post #15344 of 20006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdr529 View Post


Doing the math I guess I was a little conservative, it is more like 8.5x.

Because power is proportional to resistance, 300 ohm resister / 35 ohm he-400 = 8.57

the LD says they put out 350mW @ ~300Ohms so if you just assume we are at that maximum output number, 350mW / 8.57 = only about 40mW of power going to the headphones at max output which you probably needed in order get them to a reasonable volume.

LD says there would be 150mW @ 32 ohms, which should have gotten them a fair bit louder before clipping



Also, I haven't done electronics in a while so anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.

 

 

What happens, there is just more voltage across the resistor now but the headphones aren't seeing any more current. The amp is just putting out more voltage (and thus more power) but its getting wasted in the resistor. I thought, however, because the amp is operating more in its optimal range, it might actually sound a bit better.

post #15345 of 20006
Yeah, I just noticed so much voltage would be going to the resister that to get a reasonable volume you would end up clipping much faster than you would not using it. It would be interesting to find out what the distortion characteristics are for each load, assuming you don't drive them into clipping.
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