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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 1020

post #15286 of 17714

Not disagreeing with you either regarding damping factor (maybe your post wasn't the correct one to quote).

 

People avoid high output impedance amps because of damping factor concerns, once they hear that planars aren't really affected by damping factor they then think its OK to get high output impedance amps. Just trying to point out that this isn't always the case.

 

High output impedance amps are not suited for low impedance headphones unless they can provide the required current. The exact same amp but with a low output impedance will push more current (for the same power output) and work more efficiently when matched with low impedance headphones. Its not just about power, its about current for planars.

post #15287 of 17714

manbear his original post was basically saying that the reason you didn't hear any difference is because you were using a speaker amplifier and no matter what the output impedance you were driving them with a speaker amplifier lol so you were sure to not hit the voltage limit.

how that has to do with muddying the bass i don't know especially since he knows that under powering causes clipping.

post #15288 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaCosmos View Post
 

manbear his original post was basically saying that the reason you didn't hear any difference is because you were using a speaker amplifier and no matter what the output impedance you were driving them with a speaker amplifier lol so you were sure to not hit the voltage limit.

how that has to do with muddying the bass i don't know especially since he knows that under powering causes clipping.

 

If he added resistors to anything other than a speaker amp he would have heard a difference is what I meant. This is not due to damping factor but due to the reduction in current that would result. Headphone amps have limits to voltage and current they can provide, best done so when matched to headphones with the correct impedance. Low impedance planar headphones with flat resistive impedance are best suited to low output voltage amps. They get lots of current at less volts and don't clip. For high output impedance amps they will produce a lot of voltage but not enough current.


Edited by mlxx - 12/17/13 at 2:50pm
post #15289 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post

 

If he added resistors to anything other than a speaker amp he would have heard a difference is what I meant. This is not due to damping factor but due to the reduction in current that would result. 


It all depends. An OTL tube amp, like my Little Dot MKIII, has more power at higher impedances. I used my 300 ohm series resistor adapter with the HE-400 (as per Malveaux's recommendation in the the Emotiva thread) in order to bring the HE-400 into the optimal range of the Little Dot. The Little Dot put out more power with the resistor adapter, since its power is maximized when seeing a load in the 300-600 ohm range. ~ 3x more power than at the HE-400's native impedance of 38 ohms. Again, though, this is an amp with an output below 10 ohms. Even though it's an OTL with more power into higher impedance loads, it's not really "high output impedance." 

post #15290 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaCosmos View Post
 


lol  this guy.  The headphone jackets on power amplifiers and receivers are very often directly connected to the loudspeaker outputs. To prevent damage to the headphones and to the amplifier, resistors are placed in between. These resistors generally have values between 200 and 600 Ohm but drop to 50 too.  BLAH BLAH BLAH ETC ETC...

 

I cannot be bothered to argue with you because it has been said 100000x on these forums but most "AV receivers" like you said, have cheapo high ohm headphone chip amplifiers, not connected to the main amplifier with a resistor. I researched it myself and tried various ones myself... The key is you said "AV receiver" which typically do not have good headphone jacks. Yours might... I do not know... But either way it is not very good advice, stop making misleading one liner comments and there will be no problem.


Edited by nicholars - 12/17/13 at 7:55pm
post #15291 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

Not disagreeing with you either regarding damping factor (maybe your post wasn't the correct one to quote).

 

People avoid high output impedance amps because of damping factor concerns, once they hear that planars aren't really affected by damping factor they then think its OK to get high output impedance amps. Just trying to point out that this isn't always the case.

 

High output impedance amps are not suited for low impedance headphones unless they can provide the required current. The exact same amp but with a low output impedance will push more current (for the same power output) and work more efficiently when matched with low impedance headphones. Its not just about power, its about current for planars.

 

My HE400 sound worse on my NAD 326bee amplifier which has 60ohm output and other than that is supposed to be a good headphone jack, the STX sounds a lot clearer etc.

post #15292 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 


It all depends. An OTL tube amp, like my Little Dot MKIII, has more power at higher impedances. I used my 300 ohm series resistor adapter with the HE-400 (as per Malveaux's recommendation in the the Emotiva thread) in order to bring the HE-400 into the optimal range of the Little Dot. The Little Dot put out more power with the resistor adapter, since its power is maximized when seeing a load in the 300-600 ohm range. ~ 3x more power than at the HE-400's native impedance of 38 ohms. Again, though, this is an amp with an output below 10 ohms. Even though it's an OTL with more power into higher impedance loads, it's not really "high output impedance." 

 

Not familiar with this amp but I doubt its <10ohm for OTL (specs only show preamp out of 600ohms). I this case, adding the resistor changed it for the better so you did still notice a difference :D. If its underpowered, one of the first things to go will be the bass.

post #15293 of 17714

I have been trying to use EqualizerAPO, Sinegen and a realtime EQ (PEQGUI-10MC, posted in another thread on here) to try and get a flat response. Found it too hard to do it by ear alone with just Sinegen. This way its possible to adjust the EQ in realtime to eliminate the dips/peaks, its easier to work out the dB levels. Unfortunately, Sinegen doesn't want to play ball, it keeps pulsing for some reason and starts/stops the signal.

post #15294 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

I have been trying to use EqualizerAPO, Sinegen and a realtime EQ (PEQGUI-10MC, posted in another thread on here) to try and get a flat response. Found it too hard to do it by ear alone with just Sinegen. This way its possible to adjust the EQ in realtime to eliminate the dips/peaks, its easier to work out the dB levels. Unfortunately, Sinegen doesn't want to play ball, it keeps pulsing for some reason and starts/stops the signal.

 

You need to set / save the DB of each frequency you select in sinegen..... Then you can click between them and you will notice any changes in volume, also you can download a frequency sweep and run that. If it starts pulsing then just switch it off then on again using the power button.


Edited by nicholars - 12/17/13 at 10:46pm
post #15295 of 17714
manbear, you get 3x the power but that resister is dissipating 7x the power of the he-400 right? Resistance is proportional power, P = I^2 * R. What did it sound like with/without the adapter?
Edited by bdr529 - 12/17/13 at 10:49pm
post #15296 of 17714

not to bring up a much-discussed topic, but I was wondering about the velour pads. I am finding them less comfortable than the pleathers. I think it's because of the clamping force... do the velours soften up slash get less stiff over time?

post #15297 of 17714

SOme people say that soaking them in hot water and squzing them out, letting them get dry helps with this.

Personally i did this on the Beyer pads and it helped a bit.

post #15298 of 17714

my receiver is one of the most common brands and a very common model due to the price they can be had for and directly coming from marantz support "the headphone output on your 5006 is most definitely directly coupled together with a resistor as are all our recent models"

post #15299 of 17714
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaCosmos View Post
 

my receiver is one of the most common brands and a very common model due to the price they can be had for and directly coming from marantz support "the headphone output on your 5006 is most definitely directly coupled together with a resistor as are all our recent models"

 

Yes but brands like NAD and Marantz are expensive and good quality so maybe they do have direct headphone jacks, but a lot of AV receivers don't... that amplifier is quite a lot of money and it is probably still worse for headphone use compared to a £200 headphone amp... I have a £350 NAD 326bee with a headphone jack from the main amp and it still sounds worse with the HE400 than my £100 xonar STX....so I am not sure what the point of your posts are really... Sounds like you are just trying to justify your amplifier as being good for headphones or something... It is not really any help to anyone else and is basically misleading. If someone wants an amplifier for the HE400 then buying an AV amplifier and using the headphone jack is quite blatantly not the best idea.... Unless they want an AV receiver and are not bothered about the quality of the headphone amplifier.... In which case they would be posting on an AV receiver forum asking what AV receiver to use for their home cinema.... It is just a bit irritating when people make pointless one liner comments which are completely misleading and pointless.


Edited by nicholars - 12/18/13 at 10:28am
post #15300 of 17714

Does anyone in the UK have some Jergpads for sale by any chance?

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