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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 1016

post #15226 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

Some glare and harshness around 800-1200hz - Does not make that much difference to the sibilance. - Pad mods fix this more than EQ.

 

I don't know why people complain that EQ has been talked about a lot on this thread, frankly it makes more difference to the sound then anything else you can do for the HE400, only other things that are talked about are amplifiers, pads etc. All of which have also been talked about a lot as well. This is the nature of a thread with 1015 pages..... But EQ will make the biggest difference with the HE400 as well as the pad mods.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Purrin's measurements reveal that the spacer for the pleather pads was a likely cause of the 1khz peak.  One of the first things I noticed when switching from pleathers with spacer to velours more than a year ago was the 1khz region seemed less shouty.

 

Now then, as for sibilance, I get that you've been trying to argue about sibilance being a part of the vocal midrange, but sibilants are essentially to be treated as overshoots, and not as fundamental tones or harmonics.  Their center of energy vary from around 4khz (f), 8khz (th) or even 10khz (s, t).  People tend to complain about the s and t range with the HE-400.  This is all naturally speaking as well.  Hot recordings which tend to over-emphasize the treble region for the sake of false clarity make the th and s,t region even worse.

 

HE-400 also tends to have much less upper midrange compared to a lot of more neutral headphones on the market.  They're relatively flat to around 1.5-2khz, but take a nosedive starting around 3khz.  A headphone with much more upper midrange in comparison like the LCD2 ( a good 5-6db more in the 3-5khz range) is also way less sibilant in comparison, and that's because it doesn't have a Mount Everest centered around 10-12khz.

EQing and velour pads is the clear easy fix for the HE-400's for those trying to get the best possible sound with no major investments.

 

Pad Mod is, IMO, the only thing that saves the pleathers from the trash heap. They are just bad stock. TMRaven, where is the data showing frequency response with/without foam spacer rings? There seems to be some consensus that glare is an issue (but fixable with simple mods). I would have thought that improving the response of the 1 khz region would have had a positive impact on natural vocal sibilants.

 

I don't have the convenient link anymore, but I've heard some examples of slicing up vocals to support intelligibility / limit sibilance (by listening to the same recording over and over with narrowly defined bands), and, I can say, it is very much true that the midrange is a critical part (if not more), to controlling problems with sibilance. Maybe I'll find the link again sometime. But quick googling makes it obvious that recommendations for sibilance cutting (by people smarter than I) are all over the place - 1.5 khz - 7 khz and higher. The HE-400s scoop out many of the frequencies known to be sources of fatigue and sibilance, so I continue to find the disagreements here interesting. "Air" created by harmonics allowed to spill way into the high frequency range might be a convenient target, but I am flat not convinced its the only place one needs to look for sibilance problems.

 

Then again I've been clear that I pay attention to my recordings also, and can't fault the headphones for every negative listen I've had - some recordings just weren't mixed that great.

post #15227 of 20628

while eq'ing might be the best thing for the 400 as of now i am very curious about obtaining some of the new audeze fazor difuzers and seeing if they help with phase at all

post #15228 of 20628

hey guys,

 

sometimes I periodically experience a brief (like 1sec) distortion... doesn't seem to be a problem w/ my source file. what do you think it is? could it be my amp? lol

post #15229 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

If 320kbps mp3 or similar is all you want then Spotify Premium might be a good choice at $10/mo. Just be sure to download the content to offline mode, turn off the volume leveling, and put your quality rate to the highest setting.

Usually FLAC is in the 600-1000kbps region, depending on how complex a song is.

 

So if I paid $10 this month and downloaded a bunch of songs, then canceled my membership do I lose all those songs?

post #15230 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

hey guys,

 

sometimes I periodically experience a brief (like 1sec) distortion... doesn't seem to be a problem w/ my source file. what do you think it is? could it be my amp? lol

It's not the headphones.

post #15231 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraguh View Post

So if I paid $10 this month and downloaded a bunch of songs, then canceled my membership do I lose all those songs?

Yes lol. It's like paying for Netflix or library membership. Only good while you're paying for it. I think it's rly worth it tho
post #15232 of 20628

I might have to take back my statement about the spacer being a culprit for the 1khz peak, some of Purrin's later graphs show differently.  Either way I did notice a change in the response of the HE-400 around 1khz when going from stock pleather to stock velour.

 

But either way the HE-400 has famously scooped upper midrange and is famously considered sibilant.  So the midrange is ultimately not the biggest factor in its sibilance problems-- regardless of recording.

post #15233 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

I might have to take back my statement about the spacer being a culprit for the 1khz peak, some of Purrin's later graphs show differently.  Either way I did notice a change in the response of the HE-400 around 1khz when going from stock pleather to stock velour.

 

But either way the HE-400 has famously scooped upper midrange and is famously considered sibilant.  So the midrange is ultimately not the biggest factor in its sibilance problems-- regardless of recording.

It seems only the HE500 driver reacted to the foam spacer measurably. 

 

Although if you really A/B the HE400 measurements with/without the spacer, you can pick up subtle changes still. The spacer pushes up 1kHz slightly, pushes down 2kHz slightly, and seems to have a more significant shelf around the upper treble (though that is debatable as upper treble measurements tend to be unreliable). The mids/upper mids difference, though subtle in terms of amplitude, would still have an impact because they are fairly broad.


Edited by jerg - 12/15/13 at 6:56pm
post #15234 of 20628

Oh that might've been it.  I remember seeing another set of measurements.

post #15235 of 20628

I tried EQ'ing the area around 800-1200hz and it did make it sound a bit smoother, after using it for a bit I decided it was better to just leave that part alone as if you have modded pads it is not much of a problem and to me sounds alright. With the stock pads though it is quite bad, especially stock pleathers with spacers.. The real nasties with the HE400 are at ~7500khz and ~12500khz, these are the bits that cause actual ear pain for me and make the HE400 pretty much unlistenable unless they are EQ.

post #15236 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

hey guys,

 

sometimes I periodically experience a brief (like 1sec) distortion... doesn't seem to be a problem w/ my source file. what do you think it is? could it be my amp? lol


Describe the sound of the distortion. Is it like static?

 

Also, see if you can get the issue to replicate consistently. Do you detect it with the same song / album?

 

When you hear "static" through the HE-400s, I've noticed that it is typically either a loose connection in my left cup, or replication of a clipped wave in a bad recording (excessive dynamic compression). Or in other words, the HE-400 are not distorting - they are playing back the distortion!

post #15237 of 20628

Hello

 

I just got my HE-400 some days ago, burning them in. Got them new from headamp with velour pads, switched directly to them.

 

I understand that the priority is on Jerg Pads > Velour > Stock Pleather

 

I'm using a FiiO E18 DAC/AMP (my first DAC and AMP ever) connected to my Laptop, playing Flacs from my external WD HD. I'm very pleased with this headphone!

 

This Thread got 15k posts, so just asking for a quick "summary" of good things to know about this HP. Any special recommendations besides the Jerg Pads?

 

Thanks :)

post #15238 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

It seems only the HE500 driver reacted to the foam spacer measurably. 

 

Although if you really A/B the HE400 measurements with/without the spacer, you can pick up subtle changes still. The spacer pushes up 1kHz slightly, pushes down 2kHz slightly, and seems to have a more significant shelf around the upper treble (though that is debatable as upper treble measurements tend to be unreliable). The mids/upper mids difference, though subtle in terms of amplitude, would still have an impact because they are fairly broad.


I wanted to continue using the spacers with my modded pads, because I think they served an important function. For one thing, they move my ears away from the drivers, for another, they make it a little easier to install / remove the pads.

 

I would probably cut most of the material out to try to preserve the damping gains as much as possible, but retain enough material to allow a lot of pass-through.

 

What do you think about this? There is no going back!

post #15239 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaTou069 View Post
 

Hello

 

I just got my HE-400 some days ago, burning them in. Got them new from headamp with velour pads, switched directly to them.

 

I understand that the priority is on Jerg Pads > Velour > Stock Pleather

 

I'm using a FiiO E18 DAC/AMP (my first DAC and AMP ever) connected to my Laptop, playing Flacs from my external WD HD. I'm very pleased with this headphone!

 

This Thread got 15k posts, so just asking for a quick "summary" of good things to know about this HP. Any special recommendations besides the Jerg Pads?

 

Thanks :)

 

Take a look at Nicholar's EQ files. They're littered around this thread. So with the jergpad and some treble EQ you're golden.

post #15240 of 20628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraguh View Post
 

So I've got HE-400s and I want to listen to FLAC music but also have virtual surround for PC gaming. If I get something like the Xonar DG, then hook it up to an o2 amp, is the sound card going to make it useless to have FLAC files? If I understand the product description correctly, it says the max output is 96Khz. So that means that even if I have FLAC I'm going to hear the music at a lower quality, compared to coming straight from USB to DAC? What is the difference between the 196Khz on the Essence compared to the 96Khz on the Xonar DG? I was hoping to listen to nothing less than 320kbps, so is that completely separate from the 96Khz/196Khz?

 

Also, I was considering skipping the sound card and going USB -> DAC/AMP and using razer virtual surround but I wasn't sure how that would match up against Dolby. If anyone else has experience with this type of thing and HE-400s let me know. 


Most FLAC is encoded at 44.1KHz (which is standard for CDs). Regardless of how high your DAC goes, 44.1KHz music gets played back at 44.1KHz. Unless you use oversampling, anyway. The sampling rate limit of the DAC just determines the highest resolution material you can play. Depending on what kind of music you like, 192KHz material might be very rare, so the ability to play it isn't necessarily a big deal. Any DAC can play 44.1Khz material, as it's the standard. MP3's are 44.1KHz as well, but they have a lower bitrate than FLAC (which as someone already mentioned is usually somewhere in the 700-1,200 kbps range, depending on the complexity of the music). 

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