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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 961

post #14401 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

Are those the only two things you care about? The two headphones are drastically different.
That's a fair enough question mate, wish I could be helpful and chime in, but I only got the 598s. Sorry, that was meant for Maserati.

Maybe they're drastically different in terms of treble and resolution like the man asked!
Edited by amigomatt - 11/15/13 at 1:19pm
post #14402 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I was actually interested in helping you out, I just don't know what you mean. The treble on the HE-400 is near ear-piercingly crisp and the HD600 is laid back but still detailed. Depending on equipment, they have about equal resolution IMO.
Sorry Thujone I misunderstood you too! This is the problem with forums and lack of voice intonation!
post #14403 of 17959
...and we all get so very passionate about value and sound per pound because we all know damn well that we've spent a pretty penny on stuff and been disappointed (to say the least!)

"Welcome to headfi and sorry about your wallet" - indeed.

Still though, frustrating as it is, I'm still smugly smiling that my £10 Koss KSC75s sound better than my HD598s on a number of tracks! :-\

I can't believe it! I love it. I hate it. Arrrrgggghhhh!
Edited by amigomatt - 11/15/13 at 1:44pm
post #14404 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post
 

In no way am I trying to insult you, I was simply pointing out that you seem to make comments on gear based on what you read. I own the O2, I think it sounds thin and shrill on the HD650, HE400 and HE500. It sounds fantastic with the D7ks and some of my other cans. There is synergy with certain amps and headphones. I can say that definitely because I own it.

 

You come across as a purist who wants an amp that does not have a sound signature, yet you EQ??? . You also made a comment about the LCD-2 being "lifeless and boring" and Schiit gear, have you ever heard/owned any of them?  I just detest when people comment on gear and sway others based on what they read. We all hear different.

 

If I came off as offensive, my apology, but I stand by the premise if you have never heard gear in person do not comment on it.


Apology accepted, because you did offend me. But let me clarify -

 

I am a purist in the sense that I prefer minimal obstacles on the path to awesome audio. But I do EQ and do probably do lots of other things that might place me as categorically "un-pure" to some people (like maybe you). I seek a great sound, but don't eschew tools (like EQ) when they help (not hurt) my enjoyment. I wouldn't NOT buy something because it had a crystallizer / EQ / Loudness button, but that doesn't mean I would use said buttons. I also wouldn't buy something lacking, for example, a hi/lo gain switch - since not all sources provide the same output voltage and I have target volumes to hit. Duh. Oh ya, and I would shop on specs - I wouldn't buy an amp that was a) not powerful enough or b) too damn powerful for the speaker in question. Is that wrong or something?

 

If you think you get such different results with different phones and amps, how can something like using an EQ make you assume you are more or less of a purist than someone else anyway? You are choosing the other equipment because you believe it has altered the end result in a positive way. That is not different than EQing, IMHO. Then again not everyone seems to understand how to use an EQ effectively, so maybe buying something else is just easier. But it is also expensive, as you must be aware.

 

My comment about the LCD, as I already said pages back, was just arbitrary conjecture and not presented as a fact or as a direct comparison. I don't hear anyone else complaining that I unfairly persuaded them that the HE-400 was 'better' as a result. I said what I did to express a preference for brightness and was aiming to be more metaphorical than factual. Wrong metaphor, I guess. I'll pick on Sennheiser next time, or maybe Sony or Skull Candy.

 

There is such a thing as making educated guesses. The rest is, where / how you get your education. If you are so above all sources of research aside from direct one-on-one experience or ownership, why don't you just write a book or a blog that I can read, since I will never possess such an arsenal of high end gear?

 

I mean you're halfway there, claiming the O2 is 'thin and shrill' with some headphones, and yet not with others, as if that says more about the AMP than it might about YOU or the HEADPHONES in question. IF there is "synergy" (whatever that means) in some cases but not all, that is something that can / should be tested, IMHO. If you can turn your opinion into some harder evidence, you would be doing a service to people like me. Otherwise you are never transcending your own biases, guesses, or opinions either (no matter how they were formed). You might actually be on to something. Or, you might be full of it, we'll never really know because you are standing by your opinion and there are no tests forthcoming. You would not, in the end, be any closer to fact than I.

 

Let me be honest, I do not own a Lyr. Do you work for Schiit or stand to gain from each sale of their products? Because unless you do, I don't see how you can 'detest' when I won't recommend a person just starting out in Hi-Fi a $450 dollar amp which, according to you apparently, may or may not "synergize" with the HE-400. Schiit, BTW, was an unknown company to me until more recently, and the Magni (the only amp I would have considered), came out AFTER I had already bought an amp. No loss, luckily, as I would have hated the fixed gain. Do you take odds with the makers of the HE-400, for claiming that it doesn't even NEED an amp? Sheesh.

 

Here is a different premise for you, stop pretending that that you know me or are capable of understanding my motives / experience / background and so on. I don't think you are. We've never met, and that makes it harder for you to "get me". The other mistake you are making is defending all the gear you own in such a negative way, which only says to me that you apparently have a hard time figuring out what you want from it. Sorry, but its feisty Friday. Viva la HE-400, god bless the O2. Lol. Back to things more HE-400-ish.

post #14405 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

1) Ok... It's important to consider value, but you should realize that your concept of value isn't the same as everyone else's. Some people like to spend a larger percent of their budget on audio, some people have a larger budget, etc. I'm not suggesting that you change your concept of value, but I am suggesting that you don't impose your concept of value on other people. I agree that diminishing returns exist, but it's up to individuals to decide for themselves how far they want to go. There is a huge difference between politely saying that you don't think a given amp is worth the money and calling it "stupid" to be interested in a nicer amp. 

3) No, value is not the issue here, because it's a personal, individual matter. Sound is the issue. We can and should tell each other how something sounds, so we can decide on our own if the differences are worth the money. When you make cost a criterion without separating it from sound, you can only speak for yourself. Which is fine, if you only speak for yourself. Again, there is a big difference between stating your opinion and "forbidding" purchases for other people. Just as you don't like people leaping to the defense of more expensive gear just to justify their purchases, you shouldn't rush to attack expensive gear to justify your own less expensive purchases. 

It's really pretty basic. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should share them without putting down gear we haven't heard or can't afford. I can't afford 1k+ gear either. In fact, my DAC and amp together cost less than my HE-400. But I don't go around crapping on expensive gear or saying that it's not worth the money, nor do I get defensive when someone says something positive about gear I can't afford. If I want to be informative and helpful to other people, I have to separate my opinions on sound from my opinions on value. You have them jumbled up in an intensely personal mix that doesn't necessarily apply to other people.

Well said. :beerchug: 

post #14406 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post
 

 

 

Let me be honest, I do not own a Lyr. Do you work for Schiit or stand to gain from each sale of their products? Because unless you do, I don't see how you can 'detest' when I won't recommend a person just starting out in Hi-Fi a $450 dollar amp which, according to you apparently, may or may not "synergize" with the HE-400. Schiit, BTW, was an unknown company to me until more recently, and the Magni (the only amp I would have considered), came out AFTER I had already bought an amp. No loss, luckily, as I would have hated the fixed gain. Do you take odds with the makers of the HE-400, for claiming that it doesn't even NEED an amp? Sheesh.

 

Here is a different premise for you, stop pretending that that you know me or are capable of understanding my motives / experience / background and so on. I don't think you are. We've never met, and that makes it harder for you to "get me". The other mistake you are making is defending all the gear you own in such a negative way, which only says to me that you apparently have a hard time figuring out what you want from it. Sorry, but its feisty Friday. Viva la HE-400, god bless the O2. Lol. Back to things more HE-400-ish.

I could care the least about the Lyr, Magni or Schiit for that matter(even though I must say they have excellent customer service), I do not want to know of your motives, background , and  I have no desire to "get you". I am simply pointing out you made a comment on the LCD-2 and just as I suspected......you have never heard it, you made a comment on the Lyr......and again never heard it. You can take offence to that if you want, but I meant no harm to you character , I was just pointing out that your opinions were not formulated from experience.

 

This is cut and pasted from the TOS.

Likewise, please avoid trashing equipment you haven't used or aren't familiar with. Having doubts about something you see in a design is fair enough, but to quote Robert Pirsig: "The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility, it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." So remember that you can derive satisfaction from listening with any audio gear as much from your appreciation of the design (whether how it looks or how it measures) as much as how it reproduces music.

 

So I suppose I am not the only soul that "detests" when people comment without experience.

post #14407 of 17959

Wow, how could this thread so prosper? 961 pages!

post #14408 of 17959

SIR:  You are correct.  It's all subjective baby!  If you're happy with the equipment and or pairing you have.......ENJOY!!

post #14409 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post
 

 Otherwise you are never transcending your own biases, guesses, or opinions either (no matter how they were formed). 


LOL. Please show me how to transcend biases and guesses when commenting on equipment I haven't heard before. 

post #14410 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


Sorry Thujone I misunderstood you too! This is the problem with forums and lack of voice intonation!

Haha, no worries. I'm confused as hell myself.

post #14411 of 17959
Thread Starter 

Long live the he400 thread. I for one, have enjoyed the ride. This thread has and continues to be an enjoyable place to hang out and discuss a great hp...along with the modification of said hp (thanks to many here particularly Jerg, Modular, WJE and many others). 

 

But mostly it's been a nice place to hang out and discuss the fine reproduction of music with an intelligent, passionate group who are willing to share their knowledge time and skills. I have learned plenty here. And I thank you all for you time and contributions. 

 

 

very best,

 

Matt

post #14412 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

Long live the he400 thread. I for one, have enjoyed the ride. This thread has and continues to be an enjoyable place to hang out and discuss a great hp...along with the modification of said hp (thanks to many here particularly Jerg, Modular, WJE and many others). 

But mostly it's been a nice place to hang out and discuss the fine reproduction of music with an intelligent, passionate group who are willing to share their knowledge time and skills. I have learned plenty here. And I thank you all for you time and contributions. 


very best,

Matt
You're not leaving now are you? It's just getting interesting! No, seriously, I've read every page of this thread and feel exactly the same. Cheers!
post #14413 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post
 

I could care the least about the Lyr, Magni or Schiit for that matter(even though I must say they have excellent customer service), I do not want to know of your motives, background , and  I have no desire to "get you". I am simply pointing out you made a comment on the LCD-2 and just as I suspected......you have never heard it, you made a comment on the Lyr......and again never heard it. You can take offence to that if you want, but I meant no harm to you character , I was just pointing out that your opinions were not formulated from experience.

 

This is cut and pasted from the TOS.

Likewise, please avoid trashing equipment you haven't used or aren't familiar with. Having doubts about something you see in a design is fair enough, but to quote Robert Pirsig: "The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility, it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." So remember that you can derive satisfaction from listening with any audio gear as much from your appreciation of the design (whether how it looks or how it measures) as much as how it reproduces music.

 

So I suppose I am not the only soul that "detests" when people comment without experience.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

1) Ok... It's important to consider value, but you should realize that your concept of value isn't the same as everyone else's. Some people like to spend a larger percent of their budget on audio, some people have a larger budget, etc. I'm not suggesting that you change your concept of value, but I am suggesting that you don't impose your concept of value on other people. I agree that diminishing returns exist, but it's up to individuals to decide for themselves how far they want to go. There is a huge difference between politely saying that you don't think a given amp is worth the money and calling it "stupid" to be interested in a nicer amp. 

3) No, value is not the issue here, because it's a personal, individual matter. Sound is the issue. We can and should tell each other how something sounds, so we can decide on our own if the differences are worth the money. When you make cost a criterion without separating it from sound, you can only speak for yourself. Which is fine, if you only speak for yourself. Again, there is a big difference between stating your opinion and "forbidding" purchases for other people. Just as you don't like people leaping to the defense of more expensive gear just to justify their purchases, you shouldn't rush to attack expensive gear to justify your own less expensive purchases. 

It's really pretty basic. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should share them without putting down gear we haven't heard or can't afford. I can't afford 1k+ gear either. In fact, my DAC and amp together cost less than my HE-400. But I don't go around crapping on expensive gear or saying that it's not worth the money, nor do I get defensive when someone says something positive about gear I can't afford. If I want to be informative and helpful to other people, I have to separate my opinions on sound from my opinions on value. You have them jumbled up in an intensely personal mix that doesn't necessarily apply to other people. 

OK SO, after all of this interesting debate the question is still available for you two resident forum contributors to answer:

 

Should someone new to their HE-400 go buy a Lyr to go with it, or not? Because I chimed on that, and said, "no".

 

Fearless 1 - If you equate what I have said now or in the past as "trashing equipment" then I am speechless and do not know what to say. You're officially taking me out of context, and out of proportion at this point. People 'trash' the 'hot treble' of the HE-400 or its 'lack of midrange' or whatever ALL THE TIME in this thread, in a highly entertaining cycle of love-hate. Hell, plenty have flat out said, basically, that the phones are bad and they are going with something 'better'. So far, it hasn't made me attack other members or try to call out their credibility or judgement as forum contributors. So I am seriously now wondering if your interest is really in said products, or just going after me because I offended any of your past purchase decisions. As I said before, please DO disagree with me, but please try doing so in a forum-appropriate targeted response to a person that will actually benefit from it. People with your means and passion for audio should do more than try to make people like me feel bad for not having a $1,500 dollar flavor of the month budget. But I will forget the whole thing if you send me a check for $1,500. :tongue_smile:

 

ManBear - I think you have misread me a few times at this point. You've now told me that 1) we can all write a value proposition, 2)  . . . But value doesn't matter and 3) Everyone's opinions matter but mine, because I included value in my decision making. At least I now know that I can't accept your recommendations (whether you know your gear or not) - because you think good sound and the almighty dollar come from separate voids in space or something. Also it is not "putting down gear" to tell someone to spend less money on something, or to just buy something else. I sure as heck don't get defensive when people don't like the same gear I do (not my fault they don't get it). I also don't "crap on" gear that is more expensive or that I do not own. Both you and fearless seem to be taking my words to extremes and frankly, it goes against the spirit of what I was hoping to say. It sure as heck isn't about the HE-400 either, so there is that.

 

I am a purist who is not also an elitist - I came here to learn, share, and contribute like everyone else. This isn't the LYR thread after all, so please keep it to the above question in bold. I'll eagerly await a response.

 

:popcorn:

post #14414 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 

Long live the he400 thread. I for one, have enjoyed the ride. This thread has and continues to be an enjoyable place to hang out and discuss a great hp...along with the modification of said hp (thanks to many here particularly Jerg, Modular, WJE and many others). 

 

But mostly it's been a nice place to hang out and discuss the fine reproduction of music with an intelligent, passionate group who are willing to share their knowledge time and skills. I have learned plenty here. And I thank you all for you time and contributions. 

 

 

very best,

 

Matt


Our loss Matt - thanks for your kind and mature parting words!

post #14415 of 17959

My apologies to anyone who is upset with my personal derailment of this thread, It was not my intent. We all hear different.

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