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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 936

post #14026 of 18084

I can kind of understand why someone wouldn't want to EQ, since it seems more "pure" not to. But I think this attitude stems from a superstitious distrust of digital processing. Most music has been processed to hell during mastering anyway, so you're already listening to digital processing whether you like it or not. Unless you only listen to really old LPs. Personally, I like the sound with EQ more than the sound without EQ, so it's a no brainer. 

post #14027 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

I can kind of understand why someone wouldn't want to EQ, since it seems more "pure" not to. But I think this attitude stems from a superstitious distrust of digital processing. Most music has been processed to hell during mastering anyway, so you're already listening to digital processing whether you like it or not. Unless you only listen to really old LPs. Personally, I like the sound with EQ more than the sound without EQ, so it's a no brainer. 

 

Yes whilst in principle it would be best to have as little as possible between the recordings and headphones and in hardware this makes sense but the recordings have already gone through about a million different software and EQ at the recording studio and also as far as I know a good software EQ does not make ANY difference to the sound quality... For example if you turn an EQ on and off with a flat EQ the sound is exactly the same as with no EQ... Maybe it might cause some minor issues when you are changing the frequencies but I cannot notice anything so IF it does cause any problems then it is not audible to me.

post #14028 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

Yes but we are talking about software EQ not hardware.... Yes a hardware tone control will make the sound worse but a software one will not....

I hear you...over the weekend I was fiddling around with a free equalizer amp for my iPhone from Onkyo and some of the EQ settings were very very good in the sense of deepening and opening up the sound (using my Senn Momentums)....My only misgiving with EQ is that when dealing with the Hifimans and the Audez'es of the world, I am tampering (if you will) with their natural signatures. Hence, if I want to make a choice between a brand, to me, the best way to do it is to have no EQ. I am not claiming this is the right way at all. This helped me choose the Audez'e and I listen to both the 2.2 and the 3 without any EQ. At the end of the day, I suppose there are two ways (at a minimum): choose the HP first and then mod it (hardware and software) or two, do something like I did, to achieve your desired sound. Do I make sense ?

post #14029 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post

I hear you...over the weekend I was fiddling around with a free equalizer amp for my iPhone from Onkyo and some of the EQ settings were very very good in the sense of deepening and opening up the sound (using my Senn Momentums)....My only misgiving with EQ is that when dealing with the Hifimans and the Audez'es of the world, I am tampering (if you will) with their natural signatures. Hence, if I want to make a choice between a brand, to me, the best way to do it is to have no EQ. I am not claiming this is the right way at all. This helped me choose the Audez'e and I listen to both the 2.2 and the 3 without any EQ. At the end of the day, I suppose there are two ways (at a minimum): choose the HP first and then mod it (hardware and software) or two, do something like I did, to achieve your desired sound. Do I make sense ?
Lolz..reading ur post i have to agree i did same thing..i went from he300 to 400 and ended up on the he500.. And i am hopefully now going to my endgame phone wink.gif so no more upgritus for me i hope as i was always a screwup in equalizing stuff..so i cannot revert to that tongue.gif
post #14030 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

I hear you...over the weekend I was fiddling around with a free equalizer amp for my iPhone from Onkyo and some of the EQ settings were very very good in the sense of deepening and opening up the sound (using my Senn Momentums)....My only misgiving with EQ is that when dealing with the Hifimans and the Audez'es of the world, I am tampering (if you will) with their natural signatures. Hence, if I want to make a choice between a brand, to me, the best way to do it is to have no EQ. I am not claiming this is the right way at all. This helped me choose the Audez'e and I listen to both the 2.2 and the 3 without any EQ. At the end of the day, I suppose there are two ways (at a minimum): choose the HP first and then mod it (hardware and software) or two, do something like I did, to achieve your desired sound. Do I make sense ?

 

If I could afford some LCD3 and mess about with external amplifiers and Dacs until I found a perfect sound, then I would prob not use EQ.... However on a budget the HE400 have a weird sound signature out of the box but a lot of potential to sound very good. If you pick up some used HE400 for less than £300 and spend some time getting them to sound good I can pretty much certainly say that there is not a better headphone under £300...  Also it is nice to get better sound quality for free..


Edited by nicholars - 10/27/13 at 10:05pm
post #14031 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

 

If I could afford some LCD3 and mess about with external amplifiers and Dacs until I found a perfect sound, then I would prob not use EQ.... However on a budget the HE400 have a weird sound signature out of the box but a lot of potential to sound very good. If you pick up some used HE400 for ~£250 and spend some time getting them to sound good I can pretty much certainly say that there is not a better headphone under £300...  Also it is nice to get better sound quality for free..

Fair enough...I was not thinking other constraints 

post #14032 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post

Fair enough...I was not thinking other constraints 
I agree on that point also..i had a lower budget also in the past..so i can understand what ur saying..

. But getting a secondhand he500 for 550euro would maybe also be an alternative..especially for u guys in the uk like nicholars.. Pity no one in europe wants my he500 for the low price i am asking..Must be the crisis in europe as in the states they are sold easily...probably because the new price is also much lower being just 699usd instead of 699(fill in the currency of ur country..lolz)
post #14033 of 18084

You people have too much money :mad:

 

Anyway here is another EQ for lazy ppl... This is my final effort, I plotted it exactly to the treble peaks.... HE400 sounds almost perfect to me with this... I expect most HE400 sound similar (white driver version) although your hearing might be different....

 


Edited by nicholars - 10/28/13 at 4:57am
post #14034 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

You people have too much money :mad:

 

Anyway here is another EQ for lazy ppl... This is my final effort, I plotted it exactly to the treble peaks.... HE400 sounds almost perfect to me with this... I expect most HE400 sound similar (white driver version) although your hearing might be different.... Obviously if you do not want a bass boost for electronic music then don't do that...

 

 

nope..not to much money..I WISH! i work hard for my money..and i know at least two friends of mine who dont smoke, dont drink,are single, dont go out much, dont eat out and drive a trillion-hand car of a few hundred bucks but have a multi 10.000 euros worth of audio in their house (at least i am guessing that..lolz)...and as far i know them they are very happy! as the music gives them bliss!

 

so even with not so much money u can have nice stuff..its all about priorities for some..

 

but i have to admit: at this moment i am a bit lucky to have a bit of a budget for my new amp and my new headphone i am getting in january...thats why i am selling my he500 also...no need for two higher end headphones in my house.

 

but as i said before..i know how it is to be on a budget.... :beerchug: 

 

edit...u do one heck of a job with that equalizing! impressed! 


Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/27/13 at 11:48pm
post #14035 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


I agree on that point also..i had a lower budget also in the past..so i can understand what ur saying..

. But getting a secondhand he500 for 550euro would maybe also be an alternative..especially for u guys in the uk like nicholars.. Pity no one in europe wants my he500 for the low price i am asking..Must be the crisis in europe as in the states they are sold easily...probably because the new price is also much lower being just 699usd instead of 699(fill in the currency of ur country..lolz)

 

If I had the money I'd be all over that, great deal. I wish my job paid more...

post #14036 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

but i can imagine it being fun experimenting with the sound ur having, making it UR sound. But in the end pure is the most safe way. In the beginning i can be the more expensive way, but in the end it could be the more satisfying one..IMHO ofcourse :D

I'm with you there, and Nich is right, with EQ the HE 400 really shines! But again we Hard Ware junkies, like have 3 amps, 7 headphones [1 dac ;3] and a dozen cables. Even if my HDD fails... I still got my gear! 

 

Still for EDM I do eq my He 400 and it's super enjoyable in that form! Still for any one who can only own ONE headphone, this is a GREAT one to own! And with an EQ it can do almost anything! 

post #14037 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

nope..not to much money..I WISH! i work hard for my money..and i know at least two friends of mine who dont smoke, dont drink,are single, dont go out much, dont eat out and drive a trillion-hand car of a few hundred bucks but have a multi 10.000 euros worth of audio in their house (at least i am guessing that..lolz)...and as far i know them they are very happy! as the music gives them bliss!

 

so even with not so much money u can have nice stuff..its all about priorities for some..

 

but i have to admit: at this moment i am a bit lucky to have a bit of a budget for my new amp and my new headphone i am getting in january...thats why i am selling my he500 also...no need for two higher end headphones in my house.

 

but as i said before..i know how it is to be on a budget.... :beerchug: 

 

edit...u do one heck of a job with that equalizing! impressed! 

Sorry for double posts, and yea I'm in this boat too! I eat rice n beans like a maniac ;3 so I have a strict food budget to help me afford all this gear.

 

But again impressive EQ. I've no paitence for fiddleing with EQ [much rather swap OP amps, tubes and cables xD] 

post #14038 of 18084

For anyone who wants to EQ their HE400 using ElectriQ but does not have any idea how to use the program, I have made a short guide.... I had some PM's asking how to use it so I thought I would make a guide. Still amazed at how much better my HE400 sound now.... I listened to them for about 6 hours at medium - high volume last night and no ear pain! + they sound like a new pair of headphones.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687845/how-to-equalise-your-headphones-using-electriq-parametric-equaliser


Edited by nicholars - 10/28/13 at 6:54am
post #14039 of 18084

I am glad that everyone is choosing to get along rather than flame each other!

 

I don't want to argue or anything, but I can say, "lets not be too quick to divide each other into camps - purists, and non-purists". I am all for using audio 'tools', for example, but that doesn't mean ALL of them. In a car audio environment some people think time alignment sounds worse (you loss some of the 'boom'). Many DSP features "like loudness" are useful at low volumes but interfere when the volume is going up etc. Listen to any OEM system in a car - they most always are too bassy at low volume, and bass-less at high volume because DSP/EQ is attempting to control distortion. That is what I consider poor implementation (significant audible changes throughout the volume range). I always use only what I think is really improving the sound, and everything else is turned off. I am very 'set it and forget it'.

 

There is no such thing as a 'purist' anyway, given that audio is processed at every single step of the music making process. Using none of the tools at your disposal only means you have left it to others to determine your listening enjoyment. And they have 'altered' the sound from the time they were tuning instruments, to the time they picked a recording venue, to the time they were tuning the recording, and so on. You then go out and get an amp and phones with a 'sonic signature' (i.e. imperfect replication of the audible spectrum) and listen to the end result on some digital medium that is compressed or not (and which may be clipped anyway). Thus even when attempting a 'straight wire' connection to your music, you are beholden to a number of factors well beyond your control. If you can't optimize speaker placement, or if you don't have a quiet listening environment, the tools you can use are typically a blessing, not a curse.

 

That said, adding 'noise' is a problem in any system. But especially in car audio, you can get away with higher levels of distortion and noise because nothing is noisier than the car you are in! My amp has some 'hiss' at high volumes, for example, but it is undetectable in 90% of listening. It still sounds better than lesser amps, and is compact and efficient. I only here hiss when the car is off and I am jacking the volume with nothing playing. So, maybe an issue at the drive-in, but never on the road.

 

Now to get real confusing: I consider myself a "purist". I always seek to simplify my audio chains to the maximum that I can, and seek minimum use of any sort of software or hardware alteration of my sound. IF eq tuning were creating too much noise, I most likely would do without. I once stuck foam over tweeters to try to quiet them down a little, rather than EQ them. There are lots of tricks at our disposal, not all of which are about the electronic space (hence the 100 pages about modding the earpads). But like others, I too try to buy the best sound I can right out of the box, because you do usually get what you pay for. There is no making crap sound awesome. But there is making Awesome sound like crap! I can still enjoy the HE-400s on there own, no mods necessary.

post #14040 of 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

I am glad that everyone is choosing to get along rather than flame each other!

I don't want to argue or anything, but I can say, "lets not be too quick to divide each other into camps - purists, and non-purists". I am all for using audio 'tools', for example, but that doesn't mean ALL of them. In a car audio environment some people think time alignment sounds worse (you loss some of the 'boom'). Many DSP features "like loudness" are useful at low volumes but interfere when the volume is going up etc. Listen to any OEM system in a car - they most always are too bassy at low volume, and bass-less at high volume because DSP/EQ is attempting to control distortion. That is what I consider poor implementation (significant audible changes throughout the volume range). I always use only what I think is really improving the sound, and everything else is turned off. I am very 'set it and forget it'.

There is no such thing as a 'purist' anyway, given that audio is processed at every single step of the music making process. Using none of the tools at your disposal only means you have left it to others to determine your listening enjoyment. And they have 'altered' the sound from the time they were tuning instruments, to the time they picked a recording venue, to the time they were tuning the recording, and so on. You then go out and get an amp and phones with a 'sonic signature' (i.e. imperfect replication of the audible spectrum) and listen to the end result on some digital medium that is compressed or not (and which may be clipped anyway). Thus even when attempting a 'straight wire' connection to your music, you are beholden to a number of factors well beyond your control. If you can't optimize speaker placement, or if you don't have a quiet listening environment, the tools you can use are typically a blessing, not a curse.

That said, adding 'noise' is a problem in any system. But especially in car audio, you can get away with higher levels of distortion and noise because nothing is noisier than the car you are in! My amp has some 'hiss' at high volumes, for example, but it is undetectable in 90% of listening. It still sounds better than lesser amps, and is compact and efficient. I only here hiss when the car is off and I am jacking the volume with nothing playing. So, maybe an issue at the drive-in, but never on the road.

Now to get real confusing: I consider myself a "purist". I always seek to simplify my audio chains to the maximum that I can, and seek minimum use of any sort of software or hardware alteration of my sound. IF eq tuning were creating too much noise, I most likely would do without. I once stuck foam over tweeters to try to quiet them down a little, rather than EQ them. There are lots of tricks at our disposal, not all of which are about the electronic space (hence the 100 pages about modding the earpads). But like others, I too try to buy the best sound I can right out of the box, because you do usually get what you pay for. There is no making crap sound awesome. But there is making Awesome sound like crap! I can still enjoy the HE-400s on there own, no mods necessary.
Well said..but..if i am no purist what am i? .. biggrin.gif
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