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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 936

post #14026 of 20230

You people have too much money :mad:

 

Anyway here is another EQ for lazy ppl... This is my final effort, I plotted it exactly to the treble peaks.... HE400 sounds almost perfect to me with this... I expect most HE400 sound similar (white driver version) although your hearing might be different....

 


Edited by nicholars - 10/28/13 at 4:57am
post #14027 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

You people have too much money :mad:

 

Anyway here is another EQ for lazy ppl... This is my final effort, I plotted it exactly to the treble peaks.... HE400 sounds almost perfect to me with this... I expect most HE400 sound similar (white driver version) although your hearing might be different.... Obviously if you do not want a bass boost for electronic music then don't do that...

 

 

nope..not to much money..I WISH! i work hard for my money..and i know at least two friends of mine who dont smoke, dont drink,are single, dont go out much, dont eat out and drive a trillion-hand car of a few hundred bucks but have a multi 10.000 euros worth of audio in their house (at least i am guessing that..lolz)...and as far i know them they are very happy! as the music gives them bliss!

 

so even with not so much money u can have nice stuff..its all about priorities for some..

 

but i have to admit: at this moment i am a bit lucky to have a bit of a budget for my new amp and my new headphone i am getting in january...thats why i am selling my he500 also...no need for two higher end headphones in my house.

 

but as i said before..i know how it is to be on a budget.... :beerchug: 

 

edit...u do one heck of a job with that equalizing! impressed! 


Edited by hifimanrookie - 10/27/13 at 11:48pm
post #14028 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


I agree on that point also..i had a lower budget also in the past..so i can understand what ur saying..

. But getting a secondhand he500 for 550euro would maybe also be an alternative..especially for u guys in the uk like nicholars.. Pity no one in europe wants my he500 for the low price i am asking..Must be the crisis in europe as in the states they are sold easily...probably because the new price is also much lower being just 699usd instead of 699(fill in the currency of ur country..lolz)

 

If I had the money I'd be all over that, great deal. I wish my job paid more...

post #14029 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

but i can imagine it being fun experimenting with the sound ur having, making it UR sound. But in the end pure is the most safe way. In the beginning i can be the more expensive way, but in the end it could be the more satisfying one..IMHO ofcourse :D

I'm with you there, and Nich is right, with EQ the HE 400 really shines! But again we Hard Ware junkies, like have 3 amps, 7 headphones [1 dac ;3] and a dozen cables. Even if my HDD fails... I still got my gear! 

 

Still for EDM I do eq my He 400 and it's super enjoyable in that form! Still for any one who can only own ONE headphone, this is a GREAT one to own! And with an EQ it can do almost anything! 

post #14030 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 

nope..not to much money..I WISH! i work hard for my money..and i know at least two friends of mine who dont smoke, dont drink,are single, dont go out much, dont eat out and drive a trillion-hand car of a few hundred bucks but have a multi 10.000 euros worth of audio in their house (at least i am guessing that..lolz)...and as far i know them they are very happy! as the music gives them bliss!

 

so even with not so much money u can have nice stuff..its all about priorities for some..

 

but i have to admit: at this moment i am a bit lucky to have a bit of a budget for my new amp and my new headphone i am getting in january...thats why i am selling my he500 also...no need for two higher end headphones in my house.

 

but as i said before..i know how it is to be on a budget.... :beerchug: 

 

edit...u do one heck of a job with that equalizing! impressed! 

Sorry for double posts, and yea I'm in this boat too! I eat rice n beans like a maniac ;3 so I have a strict food budget to help me afford all this gear.

 

But again impressive EQ. I've no paitence for fiddleing with EQ [much rather swap OP amps, tubes and cables xD] 

post #14031 of 20230

For anyone who wants to EQ their HE400 using ElectriQ but does not have any idea how to use the program, I have made a short guide.... I had some PM's asking how to use it so I thought I would make a guide. Still amazed at how much better my HE400 sound now.... I listened to them for about 6 hours at medium - high volume last night and no ear pain! + they sound like a new pair of headphones.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687845/how-to-equalise-your-headphones-using-electriq-parametric-equaliser


Edited by nicholars - 10/28/13 at 6:54am
post #14032 of 20230

I am glad that everyone is choosing to get along rather than flame each other!

 

I don't want to argue or anything, but I can say, "lets not be too quick to divide each other into camps - purists, and non-purists". I am all for using audio 'tools', for example, but that doesn't mean ALL of them. In a car audio environment some people think time alignment sounds worse (you loss some of the 'boom'). Many DSP features "like loudness" are useful at low volumes but interfere when the volume is going up etc. Listen to any OEM system in a car - they most always are too bassy at low volume, and bass-less at high volume because DSP/EQ is attempting to control distortion. That is what I consider poor implementation (significant audible changes throughout the volume range). I always use only what I think is really improving the sound, and everything else is turned off. I am very 'set it and forget it'.

 

There is no such thing as a 'purist' anyway, given that audio is processed at every single step of the music making process. Using none of the tools at your disposal only means you have left it to others to determine your listening enjoyment. And they have 'altered' the sound from the time they were tuning instruments, to the time they picked a recording venue, to the time they were tuning the recording, and so on. You then go out and get an amp and phones with a 'sonic signature' (i.e. imperfect replication of the audible spectrum) and listen to the end result on some digital medium that is compressed or not (and which may be clipped anyway). Thus even when attempting a 'straight wire' connection to your music, you are beholden to a number of factors well beyond your control. If you can't optimize speaker placement, or if you don't have a quiet listening environment, the tools you can use are typically a blessing, not a curse.

 

That said, adding 'noise' is a problem in any system. But especially in car audio, you can get away with higher levels of distortion and noise because nothing is noisier than the car you are in! My amp has some 'hiss' at high volumes, for example, but it is undetectable in 90% of listening. It still sounds better than lesser amps, and is compact and efficient. I only here hiss when the car is off and I am jacking the volume with nothing playing. So, maybe an issue at the drive-in, but never on the road.

 

Now to get real confusing: I consider myself a "purist". I always seek to simplify my audio chains to the maximum that I can, and seek minimum use of any sort of software or hardware alteration of my sound. IF eq tuning were creating too much noise, I most likely would do without. I once stuck foam over tweeters to try to quiet them down a little, rather than EQ them. There are lots of tricks at our disposal, not all of which are about the electronic space (hence the 100 pages about modding the earpads). But like others, I too try to buy the best sound I can right out of the box, because you do usually get what you pay for. There is no making crap sound awesome. But there is making Awesome sound like crap! I can still enjoy the HE-400s on there own, no mods necessary.

post #14033 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

I am glad that everyone is choosing to get along rather than flame each other!

I don't want to argue or anything, but I can say, "lets not be too quick to divide each other into camps - purists, and non-purists". I am all for using audio 'tools', for example, but that doesn't mean ALL of them. In a car audio environment some people think time alignment sounds worse (you loss some of the 'boom'). Many DSP features "like loudness" are useful at low volumes but interfere when the volume is going up etc. Listen to any OEM system in a car - they most always are too bassy at low volume, and bass-less at high volume because DSP/EQ is attempting to control distortion. That is what I consider poor implementation (significant audible changes throughout the volume range). I always use only what I think is really improving the sound, and everything else is turned off. I am very 'set it and forget it'.

There is no such thing as a 'purist' anyway, given that audio is processed at every single step of the music making process. Using none of the tools at your disposal only means you have left it to others to determine your listening enjoyment. And they have 'altered' the sound from the time they were tuning instruments, to the time they picked a recording venue, to the time they were tuning the recording, and so on. You then go out and get an amp and phones with a 'sonic signature' (i.e. imperfect replication of the audible spectrum) and listen to the end result on some digital medium that is compressed or not (and which may be clipped anyway). Thus even when attempting a 'straight wire' connection to your music, you are beholden to a number of factors well beyond your control. If you can't optimize speaker placement, or if you don't have a quiet listening environment, the tools you can use are typically a blessing, not a curse.

That said, adding 'noise' is a problem in any system. But especially in car audio, you can get away with higher levels of distortion and noise because nothing is noisier than the car you are in! My amp has some 'hiss' at high volumes, for example, but it is undetectable in 90% of listening. It still sounds better than lesser amps, and is compact and efficient. I only here hiss when the car is off and I am jacking the volume with nothing playing. So, maybe an issue at the drive-in, but never on the road.

Now to get real confusing: I consider myself a "purist". I always seek to simplify my audio chains to the maximum that I can, and seek minimum use of any sort of software or hardware alteration of my sound. IF eq tuning were creating too much noise, I most likely would do without. I once stuck foam over tweeters to try to quiet them down a little, rather than EQ them. There are lots of tricks at our disposal, not all of which are about the electronic space (hence the 100 pages about modding the earpads). But like others, I too try to buy the best sound I can right out of the box, because you do usually get what you pay for. There is no making crap sound awesome. But there is making Awesome sound like crap! I can still enjoy the HE-400s on there own, no mods necessary.
Well said..but..if i am no purist what am i? .. biggrin.gif
post #14034 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Well said..but..if i am no purist what am i? .. biggrin.gif

A pragmatist.

post #14035 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

A pragmatist.

+1

post #14036 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post
 

I am glad that everyone is choosing to get along rather than flame each other!

 

I don't want to argue or anything, but I can say, "lets not be too quick to divide each other into camps - purists, and non-purists". I am all for using audio 'tools', for example, but that doesn't mean ALL of them. In a car audio environment some people think time alignment sounds worse (you loss some of the 'boom'). Many DSP features "like loudness" are useful at low volumes but interfere when the volume is going up etc. Listen to any OEM system in a car - they most always are too bassy at low volume, and bass-less at high volume because DSP/EQ is attempting to control distortion. That is what I consider poor implementation (significant audible changes throughout the volume range). I always use only what I think is really improving the sound, and everything else is turned off. I am very 'set it and forget it'.

 

There is no such thing as a 'purist' anyway, given that audio is processed at every single step of the music making process. Using none of the tools at your disposal only means you have left it to others to determine your listening enjoyment. And they have 'altered' the sound from the time they were tuning instruments, to the time they picked a recording venue, to the time they were tuning the recording, and so on. You then go out and get an amp and phones with a 'sonic signature' (i.e. imperfect replication of the audible spectrum) and listen to the end result on some digital medium that is compressed or not (and which may be clipped anyway). Thus even when attempting a 'straight wire' connection to your music, you are beholden to a number of factors well beyond your control. If you can't optimize speaker placement, or if you don't have a quiet listening environment, the tools you can use are typically a blessing, not a curse.

 

That said, adding 'noise' is a problem in any system. But especially in car audio, you can get away with higher levels of distortion and noise because nothing is noisier than the car you are in! My amp has some 'hiss' at high volumes, for example, but it is undetectable in 90% of listening. It still sounds better than lesser amps, and is compact and efficient. I only here hiss when the car is off and I am jacking the volume with nothing playing. So, maybe an issue at the drive-in, but never on the road.

 

Now to get real confusing: I consider myself a "purist". I always seek to simplify my audio chains to the maximum that I can, and seek minimum use of any sort of software or hardware alteration of my sound. IF eq tuning were creating too much noise, I most likely would do without. I once stuck foam over tweeters to try to quiet them down a little, rather than EQ them. There are lots of tricks at our disposal, not all of which are about the electronic space (hence the 100 pages about modding the earpads). But like others, I too try to buy the best sound I can right out of the box, because you do usually get what you pay for. There is no making crap sound awesome. But there is making Awesome sound like crap! I can still enjoy the HE-400s on there own, no mods necessary.

 

I will send you my EQ or post it in this thread if possible, as an experiment you can try it and see if you prefer it, to me the HE400 sound almost unlistenable in stock form at other than at low volumes. I still cannot believe how good they sound now, I have not been able to take them off since I have got the EQ for them perfected, took me about 5 hours of tweaking haha. I always thought "these are the best headphones for the money but I want to upgrade due to the issues and harsh / sibilance etc." .... Now I currently have no urge to upgrade, they are amazing now with electronic music, even vocals sound natural... they still have that crisp sound but they are almost perfectly balanced, including the upper midrange which everyone complains about. If I run a frequency sweep on the stock headphone they are pretty much all over the place with the volume of different frequencies but now they are almost perfectly neutral volume from 20hz - 20khz.  Any negative effect EQ may have  (I cant notice any unless it is a poor EQ) is nothing compared to the improvement in sound quality....


Edited by nicholars - 10/29/13 at 10:33am
post #14037 of 20230

I think the reason the HE400 respond so well to EQ and mods is that they have very good drivers which are capable of producing all frequencies from sub bass up to ultrasonic frequencies. Other than the uneven frequency response they do not have any obvious flaws such as bad soundstage, closed sound, slow response and all the usual things that headphones around this price range usually have... at least one obvious flaw which cannot be fixed. If you want to change the frequency response on the HE400 you can make them sound almost however you want because the drivers are good to excellent with all frequencies, especially the bass.

 

Most headphones at this price have issues that EQ cannot fix... If the headphone has a limited frequency response eg. cannot go below 40hz bass or a slow response time, bad imaging etc. you can EQ all you want but it will not fix it. Only issues with the HE400 are the ringing around 700-1200hz and also some sibilance, both of these can be sorted out by EQing frequencies and pad mods. Can't say that I have ever spent as long with any pair of headphones modding them and playing with EQ or heard such a massive change from tweaking... there is something very satisfying about getting more performance and customising the sound for free.


Edited by nicholars - 10/29/13 at 12:44pm
post #14038 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

I think the reason the HE400 respond so well to EQ and mods is that they have very good drivers which are capable of producing all frequencies from sub bass up to ultrasonic frequencies. Other than the uneven frequency response they do not have any obvious flaws such as bad soundstage, closed sound, slow response and all the usual things that headphones around this price range usually have... at least one obvious flaw which cannot be fixed. If you want to change the frequency response on the HE400 you can make them sound almost however you want because the drivers are good to excellent with all frequencies, especially the bass.

 

Most headphones at this price have issues that EQ cannot fix... If the headphone has a limited frequency response eg. cannot go below 40hz bass or a slow response time, bad imaging etc. you can EQ all you want but it will not fix it. Only issues with the HE400 are the ringing around 700-1200hz and also some sibilance, both of these can be sorted out by EQing frequencies and pad mods. Can't say that I have ever spent as long with any pair of headphones modding them and playing with EQ or heard such a massive change from tweaking... there is something very satisfying about getting more performance and customising the sound for free.

How do you solve that ringing in 700-1200hz? Solved by lowering the EQ (by how much?) or does it get fixed with the jergpads?

post #14039 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 

 

I will send you my EQ or post it in this thread if possible, as an experiment you can try it and see if you prefer it, to me the HE400 sound almost unlistenable in stock form at other than at low volumes. I still cannot believe how good they sound now, I have not been able to take them off since I have got the EQ for them perfected, took me about 5 hours of tweaking haha. I always thought "these are the best headphones for the money but I want to upgrade due to the issues and harsh / sibilance etc." .... Now I currently have no urge to upgrade, they are amazing now with electronic music, even vocals sound natural... they still have that crisp sound but they are almost perfectly balanced, including the upper midrange which everyone complains about. If I run a frequency sweep on the stock headphone they are pretty much all over the place with the volume of different frequencies but now they are almost perfectly neutral volume from 20hz - 20khz.  Any negative effect EQ may have  (I cant notice any unless it is a poor EQ) is nothing compared to the improvement in sound quality....

 

I still think the most important EQ setting for these is a boost in the 2-6KHz region of about 3-4dB. It makes them much more lively, the vocals more clear, and I don't have to kill the treble as much (only a 2-3dB dip at 10kHz). I would be interested in testing your EQ if you could post the settings file here please, its a bit hard to replicate it, thanks.

post #14040 of 20230
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmaster View Post
 

How do you solve that ringing in 700-1200hz? Solved by lowering the EQ (by how much?) or does it get fixed with the jergpads?

 

Well you cannot get rid of it completely, because it is a problem with the drivers, but you can get it to be pretty much inaudible by carefully EQ'ing and also the Jergpads help as well, Jergpads and EQ and it is not really noticable to me any more whereas there was obvious glare before. I will post my new EQ or upload it when I get a chance. Also if you get it right you can bring out the recessed mids around 1000-4000khz without even EQ'ing the volume of them up very much, if you get the curve right from the lower midrange to the upper midrange with a dip for the area with the ringing you can get the whole midrange to sound nicely balanced without changing any frequencies by more than about 1.5db... not 100% perfect but a huge improvement over the stock headhones anyway. This is not possible with graphic EQ because it is nowhere near accurate enough.

 

Also lowering the two big treble spikes while leaving most of the other parts alone you can get a very nicely balanced sound which is not sibilant and although a bit less detailed than stock it is not anything you would notice if you had not heard that first.... Still sound more detailed than most headphones.. The default HE400 with no EQ does not sound balanced to me... But some people are not bothered about sibilance whereas it gives me pain after an hour or two.... I listened to them for about 6 hours yesterday with no issues at all.

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