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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 916

post #13726 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmaster View Post
 

Earlier I thought the roll off from 8K and upwards had huge detail loss in the treble, however when I add 3-4 db in the 2k-4k region, it brings out the detail in the treble (or upper midrange, whatever you wanna call it) that I really enjoy. I don't think the sonic information in the 8K region and above is very important anyways. Let me know if I'm wrong

 

Well the HE400 have a big treble spike above about 7.5khz which makes them sound very bright and harsh to me with no EQ.... Yes you do lose some detail and the harmonics a bit with that EQ I posted, but to my ears that is preferable to sibilance and ear pain..... I do not like the sound of the treble on these headphones much... But I like everything else a lot.... The bass, mids, speed etc.... They do not sound dark to me even with that much EQ... actually the treble sounds pretty good to me when it is like that. Try it, you might like it.... But give it a couple of hours to get used to it and it will sound normal... Then if you go back to the flat EQ and they will sound very bright and harsh.... If you like the treble and the sibilance / harshness does not bother you then you can EQ it less..... Personally I get ear pain if I do not EQ the treble down.... Ideally the HE400 would have perfect treble as well, but you can't get everything for the money. I think the bass and mids and pretty much everything else on this headphone is awesome.... But the treble is much too bright without EQ. You can EQ up the area from 1.5khz > 6khz as well if you want more upper mids....

post #13727 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

The best way to tell is to take 8k and above all the way down to zero and see if you like it. When I originally bought the HE-400, I did something similar to this but over time I grew fond of the treble energy; it just makes everything sound more crisp.

 

Yes I did this as well.... But I have got it now so there is some of that crispness and I can listen at decent volume without hurting my ears too much, I found it is very dependant on the recording and mp3 quality so I have a setting for good quality and a smoother setting for bad recordings or low bitrate Mp3.... When you first switch from the default EQ to reduced treble they might sound like you are missing some treble but once you get used to it then it sounds better and no ear pain..... These headphones have a LOT of treble around 8-16khz so even with a lot of EQ they still don't sound dark or muffled compared to a lot of headphones I have owned.... Even with that 8db reduction in the treble they are crisper and brighter than the HD650. I recommend that you reduce the treble and then give it a few hours / days to get used to it... Then go back to the default EQ and it will sound bright...

post #13728 of 17699
Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholars View Post


 The HE400 still sound brighter than something like HD650, even with this much EQ....

 

I am eyeballing the HE-400. Is what you're saying about brightness also the general opinion?

post #13729 of 17699

Frequency response of the HE400......

 

That treble spike at 7.5-16khz is around 5-10db higher than the upper midrange so reducing it by 4-8db is effectively giving you a flat response from 1.5khz > 16khz.... This will give you a lot of bass and lower mids and slightly dark but even upper mids and treble..... Works pretty well.... Depends if you like bright headphones or not... Personally I DO NOT like the treble of these headphones with no EQ but when EQ they sound pretty good, still crisp and detailed compared to a lot of headphones but not too bright.....

 

post #13730 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriez View Post
 

 

I am eyeballing the HE-400. Is what you're saying about brightness also the general opinion?

Nah, they are mostly dark except for that 10k spike. which is why people describe them as bright. 

 

Btw my 3db increase in 2k-4k region makes female vocals and guitars more natural sounding. first thing i noticed after coming from the hd650 was the bit of artificial sound some instruments and vocals had. It's not bad though. But the 650 is a super lush natural sounding HP. 

post #13731 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriez View Post
 

 

I am eyeballing the HE-400. Is what you're saying about brightness also the general opinion?

Yes. These are overall dark headphones with a LOT of treble energy making them seem somewhat bright despite the upper mid recession.

post #13732 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriez View Post
 

 

I am eyeballing the HE-400. Is what you're saying about brightness also the general opinion?

 

They are slightly odd headphones because they have an overall dark sound up until around 8khz where they have a big treble spike which makes them sound bright and quite harsh / sibilant..... Most people agree with this but peoples hearing is different.... If you get the HE400 and spend some time modding the pads and EQ'ing them you can get a very nice sounding pair of headphones... Probably the best for the money, if you look in my profile you can see how many headphones I have owned, also tried a lot in shops etc. The HE400 are my favorite (with mods and EQ, do not like the treble spike at all without EQ / mods).... I also like the Denon D2000 and HD650 depending on music / films / games etc.... For electronic music though I think the HE400 are the best.... Dx000 are good as well for this but they are no longer in production. The bass, mids, speed, seperation, imaging etc. on the HE400 are just so much better than dynamic headphones and also Planars are the only OPEN headphones which can do serious bass as well, most open dynamic headphones have quite poor bass impact and no sub bass.... HE400 has good impact and sub bass as well as sounding open.


Edited by nicholars - 10/17/13 at 8:16am
post #13733 of 17699

I don't quite understand why people speak of the dark/ bright signature as something paradoxical -- it's just a variation of the "v-shaped" type of sound signature. Only the trough of the v is more the upper mids than the entire midrange. IMO, pleathers + EQ makes them just dark, and velours makes them bright (I can see how people might disagree about the velours though). 

post #13734 of 17699

Aren't you supposed to EQ down? I see people eqing up alot.

 

 

BTW So far, these, at stock with just pleasures no eq, sound better then my ultrasone pro 550s; just less bass but its more detailed, and alot less soundstage


Edited by renji1337 - 10/17/13 at 10:50am
post #13735 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by renji1337 View Post
 

Aren't you supposed to EQ down? I see people eqing up alot.

 

 

BTW So far, these, at stock with just pleasures no eq, sound better then my ultrasone pro 550s; just less bass but its more detailed, and alot less soundstage

 

On the Foobar 31 band EQ it has a feature that normalises the volume.... You see the tick box that says "Auto".... For example if you go 5db above default then it will lower the volume by 5db... Just make sure you check that box.

post #13736 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

I don't quite understand why people speak of the dark/ bright signature as something paradoxical -- it's just a variation of the "v-shaped" type of sound signature. Only the trough of the v is more the upper mids than the entire midrange. IMO, pleathers + EQ makes them just dark, and velours makes them bright (I can see how people might disagree about the velours though). 

 

It is a bit loopy on the HE400 compared to most headphones though.... usually they would have increased bass and treble with a dip in the mids.... On the HE400 it is more of a --/\--/\ .... Whatever that is....

post #13737 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriez View Post
 

 

I am eyeballing the HE-400. Is what you're saying about brightness also the general opinion?

 

They are slightly odd headphones because they have an overall dark sound up until around 8khz where they have a big treble spike which makes them sound bright and quite harsh / sibilant..... Most people agree with this but peoples hearing is different.... If you get the HE400 and spend some time modding the pads and EQ'ing them you can get a very nice sounding pair of headphones... Probably the best for the money, if you look in my profile you can see how many headphones I have owned, also tried a lot in shops etc. The HE400 are my favorite (with mods and EQ, do not like the treble spike at all without EQ / mods).... I also like the Denon D2000 and HD650 depending on music / films / games etc.... For electronic music though I think the HE400 are the best.... Dx000 are good as well for this but they are no longer in production. The bass, mids, speed, seperation, imaging etc. on the HE400 are just so much better than dynamic headphones and also Planars are the only OPEN headphones which can do serious bass as well, most open dynamic headphones have quite poor bass impact and no sub bass.... HE400 has good impact and sub bass as well as sounding open.

 

Very useful info for which I thank you. I need(!) that tight deep bass most of all but should ''never'' be overpowering. What kind of electronic do you listen to so I have a little reference framework.

 

I'm actually leaning towards giving up on headphones as it all did not quite live up to the expectations but this one here opens another door. Also because they are planar which I have not tried yet. With modding the pads you probably mean Jerg pads which tames treble? Furthermore, what's the opinion on HE-400 plus Asgard 2 or Lyr? I don't care for tube rolling but the Lyr could provide a little tube warmth although I wouldn't want too much of that either. My DAC is a Uber-Bi.


Edited by moriez - 10/17/13 at 11:30am
post #13738 of 17699

The HE-400 is great with EDM in general, but I find it particularly amazing with non-house type genres (basically genres that don't have a four-on-the-floor kick drum beat). The bass is so textured and fast that I prefer listening to tunes with complicated bass lines (i.e. glitch hop, DnB, dubstep, etc.). These headphones are the king of DnB; I believe that is not debatable ;) .

post #13739 of 17699
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriez View Post
 

 

Very useful info for which I thank you. I need(!) that tight deep bass most of all but should ''never'' be overpowering. What kind of electronic do you listen to so I have a little reference framework.

 

I'm actually leaning towards giving up on headphones as it all did not quite live up to the expectations but this one here opens another door. Also because they are planar which I have not tried yet. With modding the pads you probably mean Jerg pads which tames treble? Furthermore, what's the opinion on HE-400 plus Asgard 2 or Lyr? I don't care for tube rolling by the way but the Lyr could provide a little tube warmth perhaps although I wouldn't want too much of that either. My DAC is a Uber-Bi.

 

Yes you can mod the pads yourself or buy the Jergpads from members "Jerg" or "Modulor"... I modded them myself and they make a big difference to the sound quality, I expect the jergpads are even better.... out of the box I did not even like the HE400 for a few days I thought "these are going on ebay" because I did not like the treble at all.... But with mods and EQ they are the most difference I have heard in a headphone.... NEED to mod the pads and use EQ! Not tried those amps but you do not need a powerful amp with the HE400.... They work very well out of Xonar STX.... If you already have one then it will probably be good but you can run the HE400 from something like a Fiio or STX..... I like drum and bass, trance, hardstyle, dubstep, movie soundtracks etc. All of these genres are awesome on the HE400..... They are good with most genres but excellent for anything eletronic and bassy.

post #13740 of 17699

Aargh, I just really dislike having to make adjustments for a headphone to sound right. Not the practical side but the plain fact that I want all magic to be there straight out of the box. That bothers me big time about headphones at this point. Nevertheless, I am intrigued with this one and when you say "they are good with most genres but excellent for anything eletronic and bassy" I notice my head doing a slow nod of approval :o
 

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