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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 895

post #13411 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

 

Sure. The vertical axis is loudness, in decibels (dB). The horizontal axis is frequency, in hertz (Hz).

 

The green lines are the compensated frequency responses of the headphones indicated, the yellow, grey, and purple lines are the harmonic distortion levels for 2nd order, 3rd order, and 4th order respectively. The distortion loudness levels are relative to the frequency response loudnesses at any frequency point.

 

In terms of frequencies and their corresponding descriptions, our hearing / most music is between 20 Hz and 20000 (20k) Hz. Within that range, 20-50 Hz or so is sub-bass, 50-300 Hz or so is bass (with mid-bass centered at 150 Hz or so), 300-750 Hz or so is lower midrange, 750-2500 Hz or so is central midrange, 2500-4000 Hz or so is upper midrange, 4000-7500 Hz or so is lower treble, 7500-12000 (12k) Hz or so is central midrange, and 12kHz - 20kHz is upper treble ~ supersonic.

 

The most important aspect of an ideal measured response is evenness. By that I mean lack of major bumps, peaks, valleys, spikes, humps, jaggeds, and such. Now there are exceptions to this but it typically holds true. A very even response will to our ears sound very coherent and smooth, nothing will sound lacking or too much.

 

Past that aspect, other traits to look for are 'good' (and this is somewhat subjective) tonal balance, and overall low harmonic distortions (another somewhat subjective point).

 

For me, an ideal tonal balance is flatness from lowest frequencies all the way up to central midrange, relatively relaxed upper mids / lower treble, small hump at mid-treble, and present but somewhat rolled off upper treble. This allows for a rich, engaging sound that isn't too forward/aggressive, or tizzy/fatiguing, yet has the sparkle needed to bring out the liveliness in music. Luckily the modded HE500s, as you can see, gets that just right. And it's no surprise, I specifically devised and updated the earpad mod over the last 9 months or so to subjectively mold it to my ideal sound signature, turns out it's dead on in measurements.

 

 

Thanks, you just sold me a HE-500. :angry_face:

post #13412 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textfeud View Post
 

 

 

Thanks, you just sold me a HE-500. :angry_face:

 

Don't forget to get the earpads modded (either by yourself or by a commissioned modder). With stock earpads they are a lot less even especially in the upper mids / treble region, and there might also be some funkiness in the central midrange if you use stock pleathers.

 

What I mean:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646812/hifiman-he500-he400-jergpad-mod-v2-5-new-measurements-posted-modulor-orders-updated#post_9068021

 

scroll down a bit to all the measurements and you can see my analysis.

post #13413 of 20389

I already paid Modulor for his batch. Should arrive somewhere in November on my doorstep! :D

 

First I'm gonna enjoy my HE-400 some more and then the HE-500 will come shortly after.

post #13414 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textfeud View Post
 

I already paid Modulor for his batch. Should arrive somewhere in November on my doorstep! :D

 

First I'm gonna enjoy my HE-400 some more and then the HE-500 will come shortly after.

 

Ah good, you're set then.

post #13415 of 20389
Anyone out there with both experience with magnum v5s and the he400? I just finished my magnum build,well enough to listen to them, and they gave me the mids I was missing in the 400s. But I like what the 400s have in airyness and soundstage, and how good drums sound on them. So question is, would switching out to the he500 give me more "magnum like" performance while holding onto some of the 400s good traits? Keep in mind I'm not a basshead and am almost happy enough with the little the magnum has. Just switching between sessions with magnum then 400 I've realized how recessed that upper midgrange is, and how abusive the treble is on the 400. Listening to thm everyday makes you forget about its downfalls.
post #13416 of 20389

Would be interesting to see those graphs with identical scales.

 

Not that I doubt there is a significant difference because I have heard it myself, some people who say it makes little / no difference must be deaf :P

 

If you could get identical graphs and overlay them it would be interesting...

post #13417 of 20389

Id Love to A/B HE-500 with jergpads vs lcd 2-3 and closed back.

But i think i have a low chance of even trying the HE-500 with jergpads since id have to get the pads done, and then ask my local store to allow me to pull away their pads :D.

 

I do have to say thou, that as a all rounder, the HE-400 is awsome.

Not only does it scale okish untill something like an asgard, but it can actually sound great from a portable amp like E17/E11/E12.

 

So, in other words, I got myself a killer HP, with almost no drawbacks... Except the fact its open. This is a big blunder for me (thou i understand it perfectly) since I dont like to bother others.

 

THats why Im saving cash for a few months now for a Alpha dog or a closed LCD, probably to sell my HE-400 if it fits my needs, with beyerdynamic pads and forzaaudioworks cable :D.

post #13418 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

 

Here's my recommendation: try HE500 later, plus fully modded Jergpads. The tonal balance is fantastic, trust me.

 

A little repost of how HE500 + newest Jergpads sound like, from the Jergpad thread:

 

 

 

In stark comparison, here's HE400 + stock pleather earpads:

 

 

...Yep. :rolleyes: 

 

 

 

(You'll have to excuse the different axis scales, they were unfortunately not standardized when the measurement guy Purrin did them)

 

Oh my gawd that is beautiful! When I get an HE 500 I will have to have them pads! 

post #13419 of 20389

Here, I normalized the HE-400 graph with a quick photoshop.  

 

 

 

 

The stock pleather/velour HE-500 graph has a similar dip around 6khz which the Jerg pads fix-- at least on the HE-500.  The backvent of the Jeg pads also cause for that boost in D3 in the sub-bass, which is most likely not a major concern and hard to hear.


Edited by TMRaven - 10/8/13 at 5:46am
post #13420 of 20389

I just EQ'd my 400 to be more balanced --increasing those valleys from 2k-7k -- and I'm really enjoying it.

 

Makes me want the 500 now :-( 

 

Is there an advantage of the 500 over a properly EQ'd 400? Or vice versa? 

post #13421 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Here, I normalized the HE-400 graph with a quick photoshop.  

 

 

 

 

The stock pleather/velour HE-500 graph has a similar dip around 6khz which the Jerg pads fix-- at least on the HE-500.  The backvent of the Jeg pads also cause for that boost in D3 in the sub-bass, which is most likely not a major concern and hard to hear.

 

Hey TMRaven could you also adjust the HE400 + jergpad (1. closed backvents, 2. open backvents) plots, if it's not too much trouble? Thanks :D

 

And it'd be even more awesome if you can shift the three HE400 plots up vertically so the vertical axis is 0 ~ -100 dB instead of 10 ~ -90 dB (the empty section between -90 and -100 is negligible, you can photoshop fill with black and it'll suffice), that way they are completely normalized and we can toggle between them easily.

 

 


Edited by jerg - 10/8/13 at 7:36am
post #13422 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

 

Sure. The vertical axis is loudness, in decibels (dB). The horizontal axis is frequency, in hertz (Hz).

 

The green lines are the compensated frequency responses of the headphones indicated, the yellow, grey, and purple lines are the harmonic distortion levels for 2nd order, 3rd order, and 4th order respectively. The distortion loudness levels are relative to the frequency response loudnesses at any frequency point.

 

In terms of frequencies and their corresponding descriptions, our hearing / most music is between 20 Hz and 20000 (20k) Hz. Within that range, 20-50 Hz or so is sub-bass, 50-300 Hz or so is bass (with mid-bass centered at 150 Hz or so), 300-750 Hz or so is lower midrange, 750-2500 Hz or so is central midrange, 2500-4000 Hz or so is upper midrange, 4000-7500 Hz or so is lower treble, 7500-12000 (12k) Hz or so is central midrange, and 12kHz - 20kHz is upper treble ~ supersonic.

 

The most important aspect of an ideal measured response is evenness. By that I mean lack of major bumps, peaks, valleys, spikes, humps, jaggeds, and such. Now there are exceptions to this but it typically holds true. A very even response will to our ears sound very coherent and smooth, nothing will sound lacking or too much.

 

Past that aspect, other traits to look for are 'good' (and this is somewhat subjective) tonal balance, and overall low harmonic distortions (another somewhat subjective point).

 

For me, an ideal tonal balance is flatness from lowest frequencies all the way up to central midrange, relatively relaxed upper mids / lower treble, small hump at mid-treble, and present but somewhat rolled off upper treble. This allows for a rich, engaging sound that isn't too forward/aggressive, or tizzy/fatiguing, yet has the sparkle needed to bring out the liveliness in music. Luckily the modded HE500s, as you can see, gets that just right. And it's no surprise, I specifically devised and updated the earpad mod over the last 9 months or so to subjectively mold it to my ideal sound signature, turns out it's dead on in measurements.

 

Thank you. You've obviously done an amazing job with the pads, as evidenced by the graphs. Right now the stock 400 is doing me well for electronic until I can get a TH600/900. Then I might look into selling the 400 and getting a 500 with your pads.

post #13423 of 20389

 

 

 

If the FR plots weren't the same color as the bg grid I could move them up easily enough, but as it stands I'd have to make a custom mask to move them, which is just too troublesome for what I think it's worth.  Based on these graphs I'd choose the closed backvents over the open backvents.


Edited by TMRaven - 10/8/13 at 8:54am
post #13424 of 20389
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

 

 

If the FR plots weren't the same color as the bg grid I could move them up easily enough, but as it stands I'd have to make a custom mask to move them, which is just too troublesome for what I think it's worth.  Based on these graphs I'd choose the closed backvents over the open backvents.

 

I see, anyway thanks. And yeah HE400's low bass goes a bit weird with the open vents. It's actually completely different with HE500, where opening/closing the vents don't do anything significant (you probably saw it if you went through that thread on CS).

 

But HE400 with closed Jergpads is probably a welcoming improvement to most, it's pretty apparent from the measurements.

post #13425 of 20389

Does Purrin have the HE-400 with stock velours using his new measuring scheme?  I think it would be worthwhile to have the stock pleather vs stock velour vs closed Jerg pads for the readers of the thread.

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