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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 829

post #12421 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

Yeah, it's a TOS item:

 

"Group Buys can not be promoted on Head-Fi's Main Forums, or via Head-Fi's Private Messaging, without first receiving authorization from Jude via Head-Fi Private Messaging or e-mail. Please note, though, that it is not our desire to see Group Buys used by Members of the Trade as a primary method of distribution and advertising on Head-Fi's forums--so, for this and other reasons, they are usually not approved. Exceptions may be made on a case-by-case basis, and most often for DIY-related parts that might otherwise be unreasonably difficult to obtain."

I thought it'd be something more Hifiman-related, e.g. Hifiman issuing a statement that they won't allow the new units to be sold at prices significantly below MSRP or something. They still might enforce this though.

post #12422 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Bingo. The velours becoming softer means your ears get slightly closer to the drivers, which makes midrange and bass bloom more, and treble less prominent. Very small differences ofc, but should be noticeable to the attentive ear.

The argument is always, is it burn-in, or is it your brain growing accustomed to the sound signature.  Have any conclusive tests been done to measure frequency output before and after burn-in?

post #12423 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

The argument is always, is it burn-in, or is it your brain growing accustomed to the sound signature.  Have any conclusive tests been done to measure frequency output before and after burn-in?

What I'm describing is neither burn-in (some hypothetical "settling in" and loosening up of the physical drivers) nor brain getting accustomed.

 

The simple fact is that at least with HE400 and HE500, the distance between the drivers and your ears modulate the sound signatures a lot. If you don't believe me, try it if you get a chance to audition / own a pair of HE400 or HE500; press down the cups when the cans are on your head, vs having the cups at their natural distance, vs pulling the cups very slightly away.

post #12424 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

What I'm describing is neither burn-in (some hypothetical "settling in" and loosening up of the physical drivers) nor brain getting accustomed.

 

The simple fact is that at least with HE400 and HE500, the distance between the drivers and your ears modulate the sound signatures a lot. If you don't believe me, try it if you get a chance to audition / own a pair of HE400 or HE500; press down the cups when the cans are on your head, vs having the cups at their natural distance, vs pulling the cups very slightly away.

Right, I was more speaking in response to Mani's post.  When I hit the quote button on yours, I thought it would include his too.

post #12425 of 18080

Is this the right way to go about EQing HE-400 in order to achieve deeper bass and tamer treble?

 

Created with GIMP

post #12426 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post

Is this the right way to go about EQing HE-400 in order to achieve deeper bass and tamer treble?

 

Created with GIMP

Protips:

 

Make the bass -> midrange transition a lot smoother and more gradual than that, extend the high shelf into 400Hz or so.

 

Bump up 2kHz ~ 5kHz region by around 3~4dB, again, smooth like a gentle hill.

 

Make the upper treble dip more like a valley than a drop to a flat shelf, make the valley centered around 12kHz.

post #12427 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan7000 View Post

Right, I was more speaking in response to Mani's post.  When I hit the quote button on yours, I thought it would include his too.


Hey Ethan,

I don't have the capability (or desire to be honest) to do actual testing on frequency response before or after burn in.

I think what Jerg is saying about my ears being closer to the drivers actually isn't the case though.

The reason I would think this is because right out of the box my ears are sitting inside the pad openings virtually against the drivers.

The velours have softened but I'm not sure my ears have really gotten closer to the drivers, if they have it has to be by almost non existent measurements. (This is part of the reason the Jerg mod didn't really work for me, although I did notice a difference in the sound, the minimal padding had my ears pressed to the drivers which made the mod unwearable for me because of comfort - not willing to cut up my velour pads without access to another set.)

Again, no real conclusive evidence just rough guesses and estimates. So the possibility exists that it could actually be that my ears are a tiny bit closer with the softer pads and that could make the difference.

Either way, I'm still not sure I'm convinced about the benefits of burn in or whether the phenomenon is real. What I do know is that these headphones sounded great out of the box, and seem to only be getting better. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

I'm going to be on a 5 hours flight in a couple of days, depending on the seating in the plane...I may be bringing out my HE-400, sound leakage be damned lol.



 

post #12428 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani ATH 87 View Post


..................

Either way, I'm still not sure I'm convinced about the benefits of burn in or whether the phenomenon is real. What I do know is that these headphones sounded great out of the box, and seem to only be getting better. 

...........

Mani,

 

I have had a similar experience. When new, it sounded very quiet but repeated use has helped get it to a stage where I just plug into my Macbook Air and the 400 just sings ! I bought some j$ pads very early on and I continue to use them (I should switch to the jergpads by modulor since I now have them). My point is that I have heard the sound evolve from infancy (if you will) and I believe there are certain processes that are activated that result in these HPs becoming better. If those processes are collectively called burn-in, I have no problem with that.

post #12429 of 18080

When I got my HE-500, I listened quite loud, slowly lowering the volume over the weeks. Dunno why, but that will definitely have an influence on perceived sound, mostly bass and treble being more prominent. Pads wearing in as well can affect the sound. Else, there is the brain burn-in as well. I suppose you'd perceive the sound as more balanced after a period of brain burn-in.

 

Have a story to share with ya, a little OT. I have had some problems with my Stax pads slowly sliding up the frame (they are glued onto the driver frame).

So, I removed the glue, and got some double sited adhessive tape, and taped the pads back on (what a hassle!).

 

The point is, that the double sided tape is somewhere between 1 and 2mm thick, which result in more space for my ears, which I really like, and this was ofc expected. BUT (!) it has also impacted the sound quality, IMO negatively, resulting in a drier bass, and sligtly brighter sound which I tend to find slightly annoying. In the beginning I thought it was because I came from using the HE-500's exclusively over for couple of days, but the effect hasn't subsided.

post #12430 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani ATH 87 View Post


Hey Ethan,


I don't have the capability (or desire to be honest) to do actual testing on frequency response before or after burn in.


I think what Jerg is saying about my ears being closer to the drivers actually isn't the case though.


The reason I would think this is because right out of the box my ears are sitting inside the pad openings virtually against the drivers.


The velours have softened but I'm not sure my ears have really gotten closer to the drivers, if they have it has to be by almost non existent measurements. (This is part of the reason the Jerg mod didn't really work for me, although I did notice a difference in the sound, the minimal padding had my ears pressed to the drivers which made the mod unwearable for me because of comfort - not willing to cut up my velour pads without access to another set.)


Again, no real conclusive evidence just rough guesses and estimates. So the possibility exists that it could actually be that my ears are a tiny bit closer with the softer pads and that could make the difference.


Either way, I'm still not sure I'm convinced about the benefits of burn in or whether the phenomenon is real. What I do know is that these headphones sounded great out of the box, and seem to only be getting better. I'm a pretty happy camper right now.


I'm going to be on a 5 hours flight in a couple of days, depending on the seating in the plane...I may be bringing out my HE-400, sound leakage be damned lol.




 
Thanks Mani. I've experienced headphones sounding better over time as well. I was just wondering if anyone had read of conclusive tests being done on the phenomenon. So Jerg mod didn't work for you? Would you say you prefer standard velours over pleather and modded pleather?
post #12431 of 18080

I have yet to see any objective evidence to support headphone drivers "breaking in". I have read several articles that claim it's never been done though... so far, like I said, I haven't seen otherwise so it is very possible.

post #12432 of 18080
I never understand the concept of break in, I don't see why not just use them and if it does happen then it does. Why not buy a product and just enjoy them.To me it's like buying a new pair of shoe and worry about bending and stretch them just make them more comfortable. Plain weird. Heck a slow break in is probable better than a rush one. Of course this is IMO. My he400 and all other headphones doesn't go through that process and I appreciate knowing my low hrs. Of use.
Edited by soundeffect - 8/28/13 at 8:28am
post #12433 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I have yet to see any objective evidence to support headphone drivers "breaking in". I have read several articles that claim it's never been done though... so far, like I said, I haven't seen otherwise so it is very possible.

 

Really?  Here's some great information on the "burn-in" for dynamic drivers.  Maybe, orthodynamics are different with respect to this process.  However, the numbers are factual.

 

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

post #12434 of 18080
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

Really?  Here's some great information on the "burn-in" for dynamic drivers.  Maybe, orthodynamics are different with respect to this process.  However, the numbers are factual.

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm
Thanks this is the kind of thing I was looking for. I don't know how similar a woofer and a headphone driver is, or if a headphone driver even has a "spider" but these are some conclusive results.
post #12435 of 18080

Tyll did do some testing on the k701's, but not anything conclusive..

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