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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 763

post #11431 of 17959

So I have been doing some experimentation and have figured out that the X-Can/HE-400 setup is producing a fizzy sound when the low bass hits, it's like it's fizzling out, iPod doesn't do it, DragonFly alone doesn't do it either, they just play the bass. Annies sound fine plugged into the X-can...Going to put the stock tubes back in the X-Can and see if that has any effect at all.  I think it's an impedance miss match though.

post #11432 of 17959
Onl
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

That X-Can v2 puts out 1 watt of Class A power

If there is a better reason for the lack of bass extension and weight I'd like to hear it, I'm all ears....

One other thing, I don't listen very loud, at least that's the impression I get after reading people talk about "concert levels"

I've been in the HiFi  biz for 25 years and still can hear pretty well for a reason, I know when too loud is too loud....

I thought we were talking 100mW. I have the x-can v8 for the 500's btw.
post #11433 of 17959

I tried these headphones on today, and I loved them! Just wondering if y'all could check out this thread:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673281/please-critique-budget-hi-fi-desktop-setup-5-700

 

Thanks!

post #11434 of 17959

Sorry to bug about pads again, but has anyone done a comparison of all the possible pads for the HE-400. Like HM5s, pleather, velour, jerg, and this http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Momentum-Black-Headphone/dp/B00AYT62FO/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1374394640&sr=1-2&keywords=momentum, etc.

post #11435 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omark12 View Post

Sorry to bug about pads again, but has anyone done a comparison of all the possible pads for the HE-400. Like HM5s, pleather, velour, jerg, and this http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Momentum-Black-Headphone/dp/B00AYT62FO/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1374394640&sr=1-2&keywords=momentum
, etc.

Not sure how a pair of Momentum can be used for pads on HE-400? Now that's a Mod!!
post #11436 of 17959
Thread Starter 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/572327/mission-replace-the-hifiman-ear-pads-with-other-brand-ear-pads

 

You'll get some good information here in the thread I've linked. The HM5 pads were a fail for me. They are slightly smaller than the cups on the he400. Although they do fit they did nothing for the sound signature for me. Very squishy. 

post #11437 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

That X-Can v2 puts out 1 watt of Class A power

 

If there is a better reason for the lack of bass extension and weight I'd like to hear it, I'm all ears....

 

One other thing, I don't listen very loud, at least that's the impression I get after reading people talk about "concert levels"

 

I've been in the HiFi  biz for 25 years and still can hear pretty well for a reason, I know when too loud is too loud....


Impedance mis-match, as has been mentioned, is probably what is wrecking havoc with the bass response right now. If the speaker's impedance is 35, and the amp-out is like, 33, the damping factor is about 1, which sucks bad. If you had headphones with an impedance of 300, the damping factor would rise to a still not great but much better 9.4.

 

People in this forum argue that a ratio of about 8 to 1 is the 'right' ratio to ensure that amp output impedance and headphone impedance are well matched. It is not all that surprising that the Annie's 'work better' with the X-Can, because they have twice the impedance and are more efficient as well. They would have about 'twice' the damping factor of the HE-400s, which must be an audible improvement given your comments. But given the 8 to 1 ratio, the X-Can amp would be ideally matched to headphones with an impedance of 256 or higher.

 

"1 watt of class A power" (at what impedance?) does not preclude good bass, in part because the amps output impedance would mean serious power drop-off as impedance goes up. More importantly, power does not = bass. It only = SPL or loudness. If the frequency response of the amp were total sh** - rolling off bass frequencies, then that would be a real instance of the amp impacting bass response. But flat out the amount of power is irrelevant in terms of sound quality. There are other more important factors.

 

My current headphone setup would provide a damping factor of maybe 50. In my car, about 40. The actual amp in the car has a damping factor rating of 500, but I am dividing the speaker impedance by the amp's output impedance to get a rough figure of 40.

 

My suggestion would be to try the HE-400 on a laptop, phone, iPod, stereo, etc. Anything but the X-Can, in other words, to see if you can get a better response. If you do, and you like the phones, IMHO you will need a different amp (with an output impedance of 2 or less) for best results.


Edited by MrMateoHead - 7/22/13 at 8:08am
post #11438 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

So I have been doing some experimentation and have figured out that the X-Can/HE-400 setup is producing a fizzy sound when the low bass hits, it's like it's fizzling out, iPod doesn't do it, DragonFly alone doesn't do it either, they just play the bass. Annies sound fine plugged into the X-can...Going to put the stock tubes back in the X-Can and see if that has any effect at all.  I think it's an impedance miss match though.


I have listened to my Denons (25 ohm) on a LDI+ that I used to have.  The LDI+ had an output impedance of 32 ohms.  Since this was an even worse impedance mismatch you would think that I would have heard something like what was described above, but that's not what I heard.  I heard a really muddy sound where frequencies seemed to blend together without much separation.  What you described sounds like clipping which would indicate that the amp is running out of power, though I find that hard to believe given the "1W"  of power it claims to be capable of.  I guess it just isn't a good amp for HE-400.  Or is it possible that the other headphones don't get the frequencies that are clipping out on the HE-400?  I don't know.

 

I laid out why I don't think there is an impedance mismatch before.  Can anyone read it and tell me why you think it is wrong?  I really hate to keep coming back to that, but no one seems to understand that planars are generally a purely resistive load and aren't affected as much as dynamics by output impedance.  I would love to be proven wrong and learn something in the process though.


Edited by haejuk - 7/22/13 at 8:14am
post #11439 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by haejuk View Post


I have listened to my Denons (25 ohm) on a LDI+ that I used to have.  The LDI+ had an output impedance of 32 ohms.  Since this was an even worse impedance mismatch you would think that I would have heard something like what was described above, but that's not what I heard.  I heard a really muddy sound where frequencies seemed to blend together without much separation.  What you described sounds like clipping which would indicate that the amp is running out of power, though I find that hard to believe given the "1W"  of power it claims to be capable of.  I guess it just isn't a good amp for HE-400.  Or is it possible that the other headphones don't get the frequencies that are clipping out on the HE-400?  I don't know.

 

I laid out why I don't think there is an impedance mismatch before.  Can anyone read it and tell me why you think it is wrong?  I really hate to keep coming back to that, but no one seems to understand that planars are generally a purely resistive load and aren't affected as much as dynamics by output impedance.  I would love to be proven wrong and learn something in the process though.


Okay so this morning I decided to put the amp up for sale and get something else that would drive the headphones properly.  But before i did I was curious to hear the amp on the Annies and make sure i wasn't making a big mistake by getting rid of the X-Can just because it doesn't play well with the HE-400.  So I cranked up  the amp with the Annies and the fizzing out is audible with the AKG too! It's just less pronounced and you need to turn it up a bit to hear it as well as the HE-400 portray it.  So I figure the caps are going on this amp, that or the power supply.  So, bottom line the amp is bad and not a mismatch for the HE-400.  I ordered a Lyr this morning!


Edited by jmsaxon69 - 7/22/13 at 8:45am
post #11440 of 17959

Interesting!  I have read that the stock PSU supplied with the V2 was not great and people had good results using a "Little Pinkie" PSU instead.  I am glad you figured it out smily_headphones1.gif

post #11441 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by haejuk View Post

 

 

I laid out why I don't think there is an impedance mismatch before.  Can anyone read it and tell me why you think it is wrong?  I really hate to keep coming back to that, but no one seems to understand that planars are generally a purely resistive load and aren't affected as much as dynamics by output impedance.  I would love to be proven wrong and learn something in the process though.

 

there is some good chatter about it in this thread and some deeper info here.  generally it would seem that orthos can deal better with a very low damping factor (outside of the 8-1), and the primary concern about high impedance amp is that the amp can't generate enough current (see schiit's valhalla on their website)


Edited by ferday - 7/22/13 at 9:13am
post #11442 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post


Okay so this morning I decided to put the amp up for sale and get something else that would drive the headphones properly.  But before i did I was curious to hear the amp on the Annies and make sure i wasn't making a big mistake by getting rid of the X-Can just because it doesn't play well with the HE-400.  So I cranked up  the amp with the Annies and the fizzing out is audible with the AKG too! It's just less pronounced and you need to turn it up a bit to hear it as well as the HE-400 portray it.  So I figure the caps are going on this amp, that or the power supply.  So, bottom line the amp is bad and not a mismatch for the HE-400.  I ordered a Lyr this morning!

 

You're going to enjoy the 400's with the Lyr. My HE-400's just arrived last Thursday and the Lyr is doing a fantastic job of driving them...it also does a great job making the AKG K701 a lot more dynamic and fuller sounding headphone (which I didn't think possible). 

post #11443 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLJTech View Post

 

You're going to enjoy the 400's with the Lyr. My HE-400's just arrived last Thursday and the Lyr is doing a fantastic job of driving them...it also does a great job making the AKG K701 a lot more dynamic and fuller sounding headphone (which I didn't think possible). 


Cool! Thanks for the info!

post #11444 of 17959
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post

 

there is some good chatter about it in this thread and some deeper info here.  generally it would seem that orthos can deal better with a very low damping factor (outside of the 8-1), and the primary concern about high impedance amp is that the amp can't generate enough current (see schiit's valhalla on their website)


Thanks for the links!  The information in those posts is exactly what I have been saying.  Impedance "mismatches" (low damping factor) are not possible with planar magnetics due the headphone Z(min) and Z(max) being the same (purely resistive load).  You just have to be sure that the amp is rated as having enough power at your headphone's impedance.

post #11445 of 17959

9 months on and I still get all giddy when I'm about to listen to music, I love these cans L3000.gif

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