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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 755

post #11311 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post

I recently got a pair of Beyerdynamic velours (thanks to Thujone!) and the foam inserts on those are pretty dense, so I wonder if that would make much of a difference?  It may not be good for the overall sound though, but it could be worth a try.

 

Good idea, seems like you can buy them as spares for almost nothing as well...

 

You mean something like this?...

 

 
Not even heard the HE400 yet, but I can pretty much guarantee I will want to lower any of this peaky treble or "glare" in the midrange as much as possible.
post #11312 of 20631

which Jergpad mod is better for this? The pleather damping mod or adding the velour top to the pleather? I'm hoping the pleather damping mod is better since it really doesn't change to looks of anything while the velour top, unless you are really good at sewing, looks a little rough

post #11313 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by catcherfly View Post

which Jergpad mod is better for this? The pleather damping mod or adding the velour top to the pleather? I'm hoping the pleather damping mod is better since it really doesn't change to looks of anything while the velour top, unless you are really good at sewing, looks a little rough

 

The damping mod is the meat of the jergpad. The velour top is sort of the icing on the cake.

post #11314 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post

I recently got a pair of Beyerdynamic velours (thanks to Thujone!) and the foam inserts on those are pretty dense, so I wonder if that would make much of a difference?  It may not be good for the overall sound though, but it could be worth a try.

It seems you and I both lack the motivation to try them on the HE-400's ourselves redface.gif (granted you are onto the HE-500's now...). From experience, I think you'll find that the thick foam dust cover will tame the treble peak but you may find that the bass gets pretty bloaty. At least, that is what I noticed from the pad rolling I did on my Q40's.

post #11315 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

The damping mod is the meat of the jergpad. The velour top is sort of the icing on the cake.

 

Does removing that foam ring make it any better?

 

I am thinking maybe removing the foam ring + adding some foam like that beyerdynamic thing would maybe smooth them out a bit... Anyone tried that?

post #11316 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

The damping mod is the meat of the jergpad. The velour top is sort of the icing on the cake.

Don't forget the sub bass vents!

post #11317 of 20631

Are all modulors Jergpads pre-ordered/sold already? Else, get one of those.

post #11318 of 20631

Are the pads for sale? If not what are the best pads or mods for the HE-400 to smooth out the sounds? Want big bass and smooth mids and treble, do not like sibilance.

 

Hmmm looking at the FR of these headphones it looks like you could just lower everything after about 7khz down by maybe 4db and the headphones would be pretty neutral, well a bit dark after 2khz but quite even, unlike something like the Vmoda M-100 for example.

post #11319 of 20631
Go for velours and eq for a treble roll-off
post #11320 of 20631

For all those confused about the power requirements of the HE-400

 

I had made a chart a while ago when I was trying to figure out what sort of power I needed to ensure playback levels of about 110 dB or more.

 

The rule of thumb says that, each time you double the amount of power to a speaker, you increase its playback by 3 dB.

 

Using that rule of thumb, the HE-400 needs about a half a watt (0.5 watts) to produce SPL reaching 120 dB - which is as loud as a gunshot and a little beyond concert levels. This is based on claimed efficiency of 92.5 db @ 1 mW. This is about what the O2 can do at max power, so that is one reason I chose that amp.

 

If anyone was foolish enough to purchase an amp that can do 4-8 watts (!) for the HE-400, theoretically they could be pushing the phones into the 130 dB range, which is just stupid. All that extra power, btw, is 'purchasing' about 9-12 dB of additional headroom.

 

If you have an amp that can do 200-500 mWs for the HE-400, you should be more or less able to push into rather extreme loudness. The only reason to go for even more power, IMHO is if you listen to a lot of movies, or classical or other recordings with high dynamic range (HDR). In those cases, the extra power is probably a good idea to ensure you can reach listening levels that are a little beyond 'good nuff'. Given that the power requirements start to get very high very fast after the 1 watt level, however, one has to be aware that the amps producing in excess of that amount are going to be very pricey!

 

This is also why buying tons of power for regular speakers (usually rated at 1 watt/X SPL), can be a real waste of money. The difference in loudness between a 50 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is really only about 6 dB (3 dB jump 50-100, 3 dB jump 100-200 watts).

 

I was going to engage with the "Tizzy" and "sibilance" topics again, but they are getting to be a dead horse! Suffice to say, there seems to be an agreement that the problems are 1) recording dependent and 2) 'fixed' in part by reducing treble in the 8-10 khz and 16 khz range. I also recommend a small cut in the 1 khz region (between 500 khz-1.2 khz). It is appropriate to distinguish between vocal sibilance and instrumental, since they are not the same thing. My instinct is that some people are confusing the two and forgetting that sibilance is not by definition a bad thing - otherwise why would we ever record cymbals for example?

post #11321 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

.................

 

I was going to engage with the "Tizzy" and "sibilance" topics again, but they are getting to be a dead horse! Suffice to say, there seems to be an agreement that the problems are 1) recording dependent and 2) 'fixed' in part by reducing treble in the 8-10 khz and 16 khz range. I also recommend a small cut in the 1 khz region (between 500 khz-1.2 khz). It is appropriate to distinguish between vocal sibilance and instrumental, since they are not the same thing. My instinct is that some people are confusing the two and forgetting that sibilance is not by definition a bad thing - otherwise why would we ever record cymbals for example

+1. I personally love the contrasting bass and treble that the 400 presents simultaneously. IMHO, the cymbals provide a refreshing "tingle" effect to the thumping bass and I don't even bother with the EQ.

post #11322 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

 

Does removing that ring make it any better? 

 

I am thinking maybe removing the foam ring + adding some foam like that beyerdynamic thing would maybe smooth them out a bit... Anyone tried that?

 

Yeah removing it is a good idea. That ring is just a hack by Hifiman to distance your ears from the driver. But adding anything may just muffle the sound

post #11323 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

Even male vocals have sibilants you know. So im my opinion, if you listen to vocals at all then EQ is a must. But again, not all tracks with vocals have sibilants, it's down to the recording.

Thats why I get bothered with my mobile setup for the HE-400. Granted the Cowon i9 has some EQ options that are very nice, but even if i know how to set the settings to lower the siblance, I dont know how to set the rest of the eq to make it sound nice (most of the time I use Crystal Clear option).

post #11324 of 20631
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

For all those confused about the power requirements of the HE-400

 

I had made a chart a while ago when I was trying to figure out what sort of power I needed to ensure playback levels of about 110 dB or more.

 

The rule of thumb says that, each time you double the amount of power to a speaker, you increase its playback by 3 dB.

 

Using that rule of thumb, the HE-400 needs about a half a watt (0.5 watts) to produce SPL reaching 120 dB - which is as loud as a gunshot and a little beyond concert levels. This is based on claimed efficiency of 92.5 db @ 1 mW. This is about what the O2 can do at max power, so that is one reason I chose that amp.

 

If anyone was foolish enough to purchase an amp that can do 4-8 watts (!) for the HE-400, theoretically they could be pushing the phones into the 130 dB range, which is just stupid. All that extra power, btw, is 'purchasing' about 9-12 dB of additional headroom.

 

If you have an amp that can do 200-500 mWs for the HE-400, you should be more or less able to push into rather extreme loudness. The only reason to go for even more power, IMHO is if you listen to a lot of movies, or classical or other recordings with high dynamic range (HDR). In those cases, the extra power is probably a good idea to ensure you can reach listening levels that are a little beyond 'good nuff'. Given that the power requirements start to get very high very fast after the 1 watt level, however, one has to be aware that the amps producing in excess of that amount are going to be very pricey!

 

This is also why buying tons of power for regular speakers (usually rated at 1 watt/X SPL), can be a real waste of money. The difference in loudness between a 50 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is really only about 6 dB (3 dB jump 50-100, 3 dB jump 100-200 watts).

 

I was going to engage with the "Tizzy" and "sibilance" topics again, but they are getting to be a dead horse! Suffice to say, there seems to be an agreement that the problems are 1) recording dependent and 2) 'fixed' in part by reducing treble in the 8-10 khz and 16 khz range. I also recommend a small cut in the 1 khz region (between 500 khz-1.2 khz). It is appropriate to distinguish between vocal sibilance and instrumental, since they are not the same thing. My instinct is that some people are confusing the two and forgetting that sibilance is not by definition a bad thing - otherwise why would we ever record cymbals for example?

I think siblance is not by definition a bad thing, but can get tiring really fast.

Im guessing you dont have to totally get rid of it, but lowering it a little seems like a good idea to me. Also i guess this is where personal prefernce comes in :D.

 

Ill try your recomendations on the Eq. part!

post #11325 of 20631

About all the spl stuff and amp requirenments, I think you can't just put it in to boxes based on numbers, but for planars, I think it is a good starting point, that they need enough power to reach 120dB. In the case of the HE-400, that eqauls appproximately 560mW. For the HE-500 it would be 1,5 watts. 

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