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**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 753

post #11281 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

Wow, I am trying to have a conversation and ask you what you use and you are kind of being a jerk.  Did I immediately jump to "you have no idea what you are doing and no REAL audiophiles use EQ's? No I didn't...I am asking you a simple question.

He probably thought you were trolling/provoking by suggesting 'Oh god.' should be an EQ, which I am positive you know it isn't, so maybe you are deliberatly trying to be annoying?

post #11282 of 17742

You hit me with the 'I never use EQ, it's another thing between the recording and the ear' line, you didn't even add an 'imo' into it. I don't really have much to say in response to that.  It's difficult to persuade people who have that much of a needless purist mentality.  The sarcastic response to my 'oh god' didn't help either.

 

 

Go ahead and get the HD650 if the HE-400 isn't for you.  It's a great headphone.


Edited by TMRaven - 7/15/13 at 7:22am
post #11283 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

He probably thought you were trolling/provoking by suggesting 'Oh god.' should be an EQ, which I am positive you know it isn't, so maybe you are deliberatly trying to be annoying?


and Oh God as a reply to me wasn't?

post #11284 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

I never use EQ's, they are another level of "stuff" between the recording and your ear.  What do you use?

 

In all honesty, if one does not listen to a lot of female vocalists, then maybe to choose not to EQ is an option.  However, if one does listen to a lot of female vocalists, then I believe (IMO) it is a must to EQ with the HE-400s due to the sibilants.  If one simply refuses to IQ, but loves the voices of the female singers, then the HE-500 is a great option, but does cost $300 more.

 

This simply is one item that drove me nuts with the HE-400.  I guess if I had purged all female artists from my music collection, then the HE-400 (or, all 3 pair) would have been a good fit for me.  But, I will say, the HE-400 is one heck of a "teaser" headphone for the price. 

post #11285 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

In all honesty, if one does not listen to a lot of female vocalists, then maybe to choose not to EQ is an option.  However, if one does listen to a lot of female vocalists, then I believe (IMO) it is a must to EQ with the HE-400s due to the sibilants.  If one simply refuses to IQ, but loves the voices of the female singers, then the HE-500 is a great option, but does cost $300 more.

 

This simply is one item that drove me nuts with the HE-400.  I guess if I had purged all female artists from my music collection, then the HE-400 (or, all 3 pair) would have been a good fit for me.  But, I will say, the HE-400 is one heck of a "teaser" headphone for the price. 

 

Even male vocals have sibilants you know. So im my opinion, if you listen to vocals at all then EQ is a must. But again, not all tracks with vocals have sibilants, it's down to the recording.

post #11286 of 17742

^Well put

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

He probably thought you were trolling/provoking by suggesting 'Oh god.' should be an EQ, which I am positive you know it isn't, so maybe you are deliberatly trying to be annoying?


and Oh God as a reply to me wasn't?

Wasn't what? An EQ or annoying or provoking..? 

Can't answer on the behalf of TMRaven. Are you asking for my opinion on it? 


Edited by davidsh - 7/15/13 at 7:53am
post #11287 of 17742

I still haven't had a good explanation as to why it's always the female vocals causing sibilance (not my opinion, just everyone else's). The treble spike is far from the vocal range of any human being. That being said, any "sss" is sibilant, male or female, on the HE-400's. Can someone explain why there are additional sibilant artifacts being created with female voices as opposed to males? One user pointed out that the amount of effects used on a female voice are part of this reason, but still, do most recording companies leave the effects out when recording male vocalists?

post #11288 of 17742
Thread Starter 

Thanks goodness, Wayne (the voice of reason) is here. biggrin.gif Bout time you started posting again here. I would agree with the above comments. 

 

I dial most of my hp's back on the treble because I enjoy a darker non-fatiguing presentation. I'm using vintage receivers as hp amps now and I find that -4 on the treble control works well for me. The vintage amps have a warmer more mellow presentation anyway. 

post #11289 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

You don't want to know what sound engineers do in the recording process then... We are pretty much only talking -2dB at 8 kHz and -5dB at 16 kHz or something like that, so you can use pretty much any EQ. Personally, I like to use a parametric EQ.


I know exactly what they do, then it is matered to disc and putting a layer of just about "anything" beween the music and your ear is audible most of the time.  I'm not saying there may not be a good way to do it, but I'd like to see if I set the thing flat and turn it on and off what it does to the sound quality.  I haven't seen one yet that has no effect, but then again I don't go looking for EQ's to use...


Edited by jmsaxon69 - 7/15/13 at 7:55am
post #11290 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post


I know exactly what they do, then it is matered to disc and putting a layer of just about "anything" beween the music and your ear is audible most of the time.  I'm not saying there may not be a good way to do it, but I'd like to see if I set the thing flat and turn it on and off what it does to the sound quality.  I haven't seen one yet that has no effect, but then again I don't go looking for EQ's to use...

The best thing to do is to try out the EQ built into whatever program you're using. I'm using iTunes, so it's really easy to turn EQ on and off to hear the differences. If you don't like the headphones, and you don't like the result from EQ, then it's time to move on.

post #11291 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I still haven't had a good explanation as to why it's always the female vocals causing sibilance (not my opinion, just everyone else's). The treble spike is far from the vocal range of any human being. That being said, any "sss" is sibilant, male or female, on the HE-400's. Can someone explain why there are additional sibilant artifacts being created with female voices as opposed to males? One user pointed out that the amount of effects used on a female voice are part of this reason, but still, do most recording companies leave the effects out when recording male vocalists?

'Sss' sounds are to be found around 8 kHz. They can indeed be produced by humans. In general vocals are EQ'd around 10 kHz so that they have more of a 'pop' to them, whatever that means. I have seen that mentioned several times around the internet.


Edited by davidsh - 7/15/13 at 8:03am
post #11292 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post


and Oh God as a reply to me wasn't?

 

You're right, it was.  I'm sorry for that.

 

The fact that I've become tired of the countless number of people who share the same stubborn archaic purist attitude and refuse to help, I'm not sorry for that.  Take that at face value.  It's nothing against you personally, it's very well my annoyance at a larger group of people.


Edited by TMRaven - 7/15/13 at 8:06am
post #11293 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I still haven't had a good explanation as to why it's always the female vocals causing sibilance (not my opinion, just everyone else's). The treble spike is far from the vocal range of any human being. That being said, any "sss" is sibilant, male or female, on the HE-400's. Can someone explain why there are additional sibilant artifacts being created with female voices as opposed to males? One user pointed out that the amount of effects used on a female voice are part of this reason, but still, do most recording companies leave the effects out when recording male vocalists?

 

I think you're mixing two issues here. There is the sibilants issue which theoretically should apply to both female and male (and it does in my experience on the HE400), and there's the 'tizzy' issue which seems to be from female vocals. I can't really speak about the tizziness because since doing the jergpad mod + eq I don't hear it anymore, but it's been mentioned a lot in the past in this thread.


Edited by beaver316 - 7/15/13 at 8:12am
post #11294 of 17742
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

In all honesty, if one does not listen to a lot of female vocalists, then maybe to choose not to EQ is an option.  However, if one does listen to a lot of female vocalists, then I believe (IMO) it is a must to EQ with the HE-400s due to the sibilants.  If one simply refuses to IQ, but loves the voices of the female singers, then the HE-500 is a great option, but does cost $300 more.

 

This simply is one item that drove me nuts with the HE-400.  I guess if I had purged all female artists from my music collection, then the HE-400 (or, all 3 pair) would have been a good fit for me.  But, I will say, the HE-400 is one heck of a "teaser" headphone for the price. 


I have bought he HE-400 without listening to it, I'll burn it in for a while and see what I think. In the end the HD650 may be the right headphone for me, but we'll see (or hear for that matter) how I like the HE-400. 

post #11295 of 17742
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I still haven't had a good explanation as to why it's always the female vocals causing sibilance (not my opinion, just everyone else's). The treble spike is far from the vocal range of any human being. That being said, any "sss" is sibilant, male or female, on the HE-400's. Can someone explain why there are additional sibilant artifacts being created with female voices as opposed to males? One user pointed out that the amount of effects used on a female voice are part of this reason, but still, do most recording companies leave the effects out when recording male vocalists?

 

'Sss' sounds are to be found around 8 kHz. They can indeed be produced by humans. In general vocals are EQ'd around 10 kHz so that they have more of a 'pop' to them, whatever that means. I have seen that mentioned several times around the internet.

This really didn't answer my question. Yes, "sss" will produce frequencies up in the treble spike area. However, my previous statement still stands, this is waaaaaay out of the human vocal range. The highest note ever sang is around 2kHz (IIRC). Sibilance, formed from "sss", "th", "f", etc. are not 'notes' per se but they do reach much much much higher frequencies. My point is, female vocals vs. male vocals means literally nothing to me in regards to the HE-400. If a male vocalist says "scissors" and female vocalist says "scissors", I'm going to get sibilance regardless due to the artifacts created from pronouncing the "ss" sound.


Edited by Thujone - 7/15/13 at 8:19am
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