Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › **Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread**
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread** - Page 68

post #1006 of 17991

HE-400 , The small soundstage with great separation think of it this way... the K701 would be like watching a 720p broadcast on a 100" projector screen, the HE-400 would be like watching a 1080p 3-D Blu-ray on a 60-inch 3D HDTV. Smaller screen but better details, dimensionality, and objects are more clearly defined.

 

I have not hear K701, but this is summary of what I read on few threads

post #1007 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicinmymind View Post

HE-400 , The small soundstage with great separation think of it this way... the K701 would be like watching a 720p broadcast on a 100" projector screen, the HE-400 would be like watching a 1080p 3-D Blu-ray on a 60-inch 3D HDTV. Smaller screen but better details, dimensionality, and objects are more clearly defined.

 

I have not hear K701, but this is summary of what I read on few threads

 

Going by K702, I think that description would be very misleading to anyone that has heard AKG 70x but not heard HE-400...so possibly a poor analogy. 

 

K70x is not without flaws, but I think that greatly undersells the AKGs.  They're excellent headphones, technically on par with HD650 & HE-400 IMO.  I tend to prefer them less, but that doesn't mean they're not equals.  The soundstage of the AKGs is immense, but overstated.  And the detail/accuracy is excellent.  Where it falls apart is bass presentation and an arbitrarily shrill upper treble.  And arguably uninvolving mids, but that's preference, and I tend to be surprised by them every time I pick them up in terms of how much I don't hate them despite expectation bias. 

 

Both are highly detailed, however instrument separation and bass performance is clearly in favor of HE-400 as well as warmth and fullness of vocals.  I think your original comparison plays too much on the common misconception about "K70x has too huge a soundstage."  While it's true it's very wide, I think people are struck by the poor center image focus and feel it's artificial.  HE-400 (and HE-6 for that matter) also lack a strongly coherent center image focus so it's sort of apples to apples.  They just have a wider swing forward and behind the ear than does K70x. 

 

Also I think the early HE-400 reputation for small soundstage was based on the pleather pads.  With velour pads the soundstage opens up nicely to a fair size. We're not talking K70x or HE-6, but HD650, Dx000, certainly.

post #1008 of 17991

Soundstage in general is overstated here.  The 'big' differences people claim are really more like small differences.  The two major lumps of soundstage could be categorized as small (usually closed headphone) and airy (open headphone)  HE-400's is airy just like any other open headphone I've tried, and feels about as big to me as AD700, DT990, HD650, HD800 etc.  There's no magical arm length or in front of you soundstage represented by a headphone, it's usually about shoulder width for all open headphones, and at times it could appear very distant, but that's definitely to do with psychoacoustic effects from the recording itself, in which case nearly all headphones would benefit equally.


Edited by TMRaven - 10/12/12 at 11:00am
post #1009 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Soundstage in general is overstated here.  The 'big' differences people claim are really more like small differences.  The two major lumps of soundstage could be categorized as small (usually closed headphone) and airy (open headphone)  HE-400's is airy just like any other open headphone I've tried, and feels about as big to me as AD700, DT990, HD650, HD800 etc.  There's no magical arm length or in front of you soundstage represented by a headphone, it's usually about shoulder width for all open headphones, and at times it could appear very distant, but that's definitely to do with psychoacoustic effects from the recording itself, in which case nearly all headphones would benefit equally.

I generally agree, but I think you're overstating iin the opposite direction.  K70x and AD700 generally do have a much wider than average soundstage.  Presumably HD800 as well going only by reports.  HE-6 does indeed have a bigger stage, than HE-400, but it's minor, and the main difference contributing to it is the amount of layering presented...different sounds at different depths. 

 

I agree that the HD650 and HE-400 stage is very similar however, except that HD650 has a very coherent center image, and HE-400 has more of a "sound in the round" effect like DPLII on speakers.  The same effect seems to apply to most planars however as HE-6 is the same, and I've heard LCD-2/3 described similarly as well. 

post #1010 of 17991
I think of surround sound to discribe the soundstage very engaging
post #1011 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

I generally agree, but I think you're overstating iin the opposite direction.  K70x and AD700 generally do have a much wider than average soundstage.  Presumably HD800 as well going only by reports.  HE-6 does indeed have a bigger stage, than HE-400, but it's minor, and the main difference contributing to it is the amount of layering presented...different sounds at different depths. 

 

I agree that the HD650 and HE-400 stage is very similar however, except that HD650 has a very coherent center image, and HE-400 has more of a "sound in the round" effect like DPLII on speakers.  The same effect seems to apply to most planars however as HE-6 is the same, and I've heard LCD-2/3 described similarly as well. 

 

I can't really agree.  The AD700s have been my longest running hi-fi oriented headphone, and with all the experience I've had with them I can't really say there's anything unusually special about their supposed large soundstage.  There is a general difference in how they image the sound-- more linear as opposed to circular, and I'm guessing that's the driver angles, but other than that it's not their presentation isn't that much bigger than other open headphones.  Now, when combined with dolby headphone, their soundstage does get absurdly huge compared to other open headphones, but almost everybody on head-fi is too much of a purist to use dolby headphone for music listening.

post #1012 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

I agree that the HD650 and HE-400 stage is very similar however, except that HD650 has a very coherent center image, and HE-400 has more of a "sound in the round" effect like DPLII on speakers.  The same effect seems to apply to most planars however as HE-6 is the same, and I've heard LCD-2/3 described similarly as well. 

Pretty much. Comparing the two it's obvious that the 650s are "closer" and more in your head as the 400's have better separation. The whole presentation is different.

 

I'll have to try the k702's again for their sound stage (first was at a meet out of a WA3 amp) because the 400's have the best soundstage i've ever heard. 

post #1013 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

 HE-400 has more of a "sound in the round" effect like DPLII on speakers.  The same effect seems to apply to most planars however as HE-6 is the same, and I've heard LCD-2/3 described similarly as well. 

 

Yup for that reason "sound in the round effect is the reason why i will not part with my HE500's if for no other reason oh and the warm mids... I love to keep looking behind me while watching good surround sound movies with that headset. I just keep thinking i hear things in back of me or behind me almost close to 5.1 surround home speakers from only two drivers... HE-400 kinda does it also but not like the 500's can. I wish to try the HE-6 one day to see what that headset sounds like to me..


Edited by I95North - 10/12/12 at 3:08pm
post #1014 of 17991
Thread Starter 

No, what you hope to try one day is the he-600. very_evil_smiley.gif

post #1015 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by I95North View Post

 

Yup for that reason "sound in the round effect is the reason why i will not part with my HE500's if for no other reason oh and the warm mids... I love to keep looking behind me while watching good surround sound movies with that headset. I just keep thinking i hear things in back of me or behind me almost close to 5.1 surround home speakers from only two drivers... HE-400 kinda does it also but not like the 500's can. I wish to try the HE-6 one day to see what that headset sounds like to me..

 

Oh, goodness: I really didn't need to read this. Tell me, and tell me true, is the HE500 really that much better than the HE400? Details would be greatly appreciated, though I suspect my withered and empty wallet would say otherwise. 


Edited by Madmollusk - 10/12/12 at 5:11pm
post #1016 of 17991
Thread Starter 

I didn't find the he500 "so much better" than the he400, even on the lyr and bifrost. Are the mids marginally better? Yes. Is treble extension improved? Yes. 

 

But the reduced overall weight of the he400 along with better sub bass response and a much lower price tag have me picking the he400 all day. 

post #1017 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by I95North View Post

 

Yup for that reason "sound in the round effect is the reason why i will not part with my HE500's if for no other reason oh and the warm mids... I love to keep looking behind me while watching good surround sound movies with that headset. I just keep thinking i hear things in back of me or behind me almost close to 5.1 surround home speakers from only two drivers... HE-400 kinda does it also but not like the 500's can. I wish to try the HE-6 one day to see what that headset sounds like to me..

Wait, what? I barely heard any difference in soundstage between the HE-400 and HE-500. Slightly more lateral depth and width, but rear positioning and imaging were almost identical.

 

Though, I also want to hear how the HE-6s sound in terms of soundstage. Well, really, in terms of everything.

post #1018 of 17991
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

I didn't find the he500 "so much better" than the he400, even on the lyr and bifrost. Are the mids marginally better? Yes. Is treble extension improved? Yes. 

 

But the reduced overall weight of the he400 along with better sub bass response and a much lower price tag have me picking the he400 all day. 

 

Interesting! On my left shoulder a miniature angel whispers your wise words into my ear; on the other shoulder, a miniature devil (aka 195north) whispers something more provocative. And once again, I find myself confronted by an intractable moral dilemma, utterly torn between upgraditis and circumspection. If my wife had any knowledge of my wayward thoughts, I'd be a goner for sure.


Edited by Madmollusk - 10/12/12 at 5:34pm
post #1019 of 17991
Thread Starter 

lol...you need to find a better angle for your angel to give you advice!! tongue.gif jk...I'm the kind of typos here.

 

IMO the he400 just delivers the good for a very reasonable amount of money. The he500 will give you better mids if you're willing to buy or already have a nice amp. 

 

Follow you inner angel young Skywalker...

post #1020 of 17991

Yeah, I'm the king of typographical errors--I constantly have to edit my posts for such silly mistakes.  Sigh. But at least I changed that last little disgrace before anyone could quote me. Whew. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › **Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread**