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Good news about Android phone supports digital audio output - Page 8

post #106 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

wow, I thought it was hard getting iphone to output digital lol. I havent checked this thread for ages and things dont seem to have changed at all. I use an iphone and would continue to for phonecalls, but would buy a GSII or other device used just to use as a transport for my portable dac. I can build the usb receiver->i2s convceror into a little module for my dac and give it its own power, but wont bother till its stable on something and that doesnt seem to be happening any time soon.

 

happy to be corrected there...

 

Can you build something for USB on the go devices that require self powered DACs?  I'd like to use my Nokia w/ the ODAC or other non powered USB devices when I want to step up from my Leckerton's DAC.

post #107 of 253

yes I could, but i'm not interested in developing it for sale, nor installing it for others. if I get around to it myself when OTG sorts it self out more, I might post something in the diy area, but I have enough on my plate as it is and i'm actually pretty keen on keeping my diy audio electronics tinkering a hobby.

 

sorry


Edited by qusp - 6/21/12 at 11:14am
post #108 of 253

it would be pretty basic, as i have no inclination to deal with the NDAs and MOQs required by some of the newer driverless receivers. it would use a simple 'good' old PCM270X receiver usb->i2s convertor. so actually no, not for your ODAC as he did go with the NDA to get hires. I would not care so much and using a sabre it can sound pretty decent even with less than excellent i2s quality. I will probably also go for USB isolation.

 

ahh actually maybe you could with the ODAC, but it would probably involve disabling the stock usb input and feeding the dac chip directly with i2s


Edited by qusp - 6/21/12 at 11:28am
post #109 of 253

Why do you make these things sound so complicated, all he has to do is connect the ODAC to the S II with a USB cable, thereby bypassing the internal Yamaha DAC in the Samsung phone.

post #110 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Why do you make these things sound so complicated, all he has to do is connect the ODAC to the S II with a USB cable, thereby bypassing the internal Yamaha DAC in the Samsung phone.


maybe, maybe not. one device needs to be able to act as USB host and needs to be setup to tell the phone that it has its own power.. or have a receiver that falls within the current limits set by his particular USB accessory power current limit on the phone.

 

I dont know if the ODAC will allow that or not. I presume hes tried that. … otherwise why is he asking? I made the assumption that hed tried that and it hadnt worked. hes already got USB working with his phone afaik and has an ODAC?

 

AFAIK the ODAC is USB powered and USB powered only, meaning his phone needs to be able to power the ODAC, do you see the problem here? so at a minimum he will have to have a powered hub, thats if it will work at all.

 

a USB connection is not just a USB connection kiteki, the devices need to be able to negotiate the connection and negotiate where from and how much power is needed.

 

my suggestion was simply bypassing the USB reciever in the ODAC so a simpler low power one could be used, I doubt it would work though, it will still need clock power etc as the ODAC cannot power itself.

 

I guess the easiest way apart from plugging it in, is to check the ODAC datasheet to see how much current it needs and then compare that to how much current the phone will provide before it denies the device. if its too high, you will need a powered hub.


Edited by qusp - 6/23/12 at 7:36am
post #111 of 253

OK I checked, the ODAC needs minimum 125ma from the USB host, so its as I thought, other Tenor devices using the same chip dont all work with Android either; but for some reason ODAC does work, at least on the GSIII, despite being above the 100ma current limit. I cant imagine it would work very long, so you will need a powered hub to power one or both devices. I would expect the phone would get a bit hot too without the hub and may shorten its life.

 

this seems kind of against the point of having such a rig doesnt it? at that point when you are carrying an android phone, a powered hub and a dac and an amp wouldnt you just be better off using a small netbook or laptop plus a decent USB dac/amp?

 

i'm not making it needlessly complicated, it IS complicated; the companies have made this type of activity low priority, they do not consider it a priority to be able to power high current devices over USB, they have a certain power budget and they have current limits in the battery and in the regulators used to output voltage from their USB ports. They also need to be able to claim a certain battery life.

 

this thread is littered with things that should work but dont, things that shouldnt work but do, things that used to work but dont anymore. … buying a phone so you can use it in such a setup at this stage seems the wrong priority. for starters, the ODAC is adaptive clocked, not USB clocked, I doubt the audio will be in sync with any video, but any delay may or may not be bearable.

 

its interesting for sure, but i'll hold off for now. for now i'll just keep using my old iriver for digital transport, it works.


Edited by qusp - 6/23/12 at 7:55am
post #112 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

OK I checked, the ODAC needs minimum 125ma from the USB host, so its as I thought, other Tenor devices using the same chip dont all work with Android either; but for some reason ODAC does work, at least on the GSIII, despite being above the 100ma current limit. I cant imagine it would work very long, so you will need a powered hub to power one or both devices. I would expect the phone would get a bit hot too without the hub and may shorten its life.

 

this seems kind of against the point of having such a rig doesnt it? at that point when you are carrying an android phone, a powered hub and a dac and an amp wouldnt you just be better off using a small netbook or laptop plus a decent USB dac/amp?

 

i'm not making it needlessly complicated, it IS complicated; the companies have made this type of activity low priority, they do not consider it a priority to be able to power high current devices over USB, they have a certain power budget and they have current limits in the battery and in the regulators used to output voltage from their USB ports. They also need to be able to claim a certain battery life.

 

this thread is littered with things that should work but dont, things that shouldnt work but do, things that used to work but dont anymore. … buying a phone so you can use it in such a setup at this stage seems the wrong priority. for starters, the ODAC is adaptive clocked, not USB clocked, I doubt the audio will be in sync with any video, but any delay may or may not be bearable.

 

its interesting for sure, but i'll hold off for now. for now i'll just keep using my old iriver for digital transport, it works.


To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right? 

 

Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.

post #113 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post


To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right? 

Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.

I don't have access to my screenshots, but I had a dmesg log of when I was attempting to make my E17 work with my HP Touchpad, which was already certified to have USB audio support. In the log it stated that the E17 drew more than 150mW even without USB charging on. Thus, the USB OTG hosting protocol couldn't approve mounting the device. I think this has something to do with the fact that the E17 powers its 3 inputs at the same time to make switching between them quicker...

Kojaku
post #114 of 253

Hey guys! Newhere.. =)

 

Anyway.. I've got my self in a little mess.. I own a Sony Xperia S and from what I know the 3.5mm jack isn't really the best to plug in an amp to.. So I was thinking, I have a Mini-HDMI jack on it as well and I thought that if you can get an output to the TV with sound from mini-hdmi you can probably buy somekind of adapter with a mini-Hdmi on one side and a 3.5mm on the other to plug in to an amp?


In my mind that would do the trick but i'm not the best technician and I couldn't find anywhere to buy it from so.. I'd like to know if anyone knows if that's possible? :D 

 

My masterplan =  Sony Xperia S>mini-HDMI-3.5mm>Fiio E7>Nice pair of headphones! =D
Thanx in advance!

post #115 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojaku View Post


I don't have access to my screenshots, but I had a dmesg log of when I was attempting to make my E17 work with my HP Touchpad, which was already certified to have USB audio support. In the log it stated that the E17 drew more than 150mW even without USB charging on. Thus, the USB OTG hosting protocol couldn't approve mounting the device. I think this has something to do with the fact that the E17 powers its 3 inputs at the same time to make switching between them quicker...
Kojaku

You mean with USB charging off?  That's strange...  I mean, with optical, it can't really draw any power so I'm sure the same can be done with USB.  In any case, from the very beginning this seemed to me like something which could be corrected by FiiO with a Firmware upgrade.  It's more and more seeming like so.  I'm not sure what's possible but I hope it is and I hope it's made a priority.  The E17, like the E7, is MADE exactly for this kind of a purpose.  It's the most contemporary device out of most if not any others of this nature and I think it should work with this new increased use/functionality of USB OTG. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeg View Post

Hey guys! Newhere.. =)

 

Anyway.. I've got my self in a little mess.. I own a Sony Xperia S and from what I know the 3.5mm jack isn't really the best to plug in an amp to.. So I was thinking, I have a Mini-HDMI jack on it as well and I thought that if you can get an output to the TV with sound from mini-hdmi you can probably buy somekind of adapter with a mini-Hdmi on one side and a 3.5mm on the other to plug in to an amp?


In my mind that would do the trick but i'm not the best technician and I couldn't find anywhere to buy it from so.. I'd like to know if anyone knows if that's possible? :D 

 

My masterplan =  Sony Xperia S>mini-HDMI-3.5mm>Fiio E7>Nice pair of headphones! =D
Thanx in advance!

 

You would try to find the slimmest most simplest adapter that would convert the audio from HDMI to Optical and connect the DAC/Amp by those means. Otherwise, if the device has a line-out option, depending on how that functions on it, you can get the required adapter and IN FACT connect it through 3.5mm and that would be fine. For that you should get the FiiO E11 then. I'm not sure if the E7 supports an optical connection (or S/PDIF it might say) but I know for fact the E17 does. The E17 is much better quality in any case.

 

 

EDIT: There is no cheap/simple HDMI to Optical converter and they all need to be powered.  This wouldn't make sense as a portable rig regardless >.<  The same thing applies for your master plan, even more so.  Converting Digital (HDMI) to Analog (3.5mm) needs to be powered.  This is what the Sony is doing anyway and that's what your 3.5mm output is.  The point of HDMI is high resolution audio and video which has nothing to do with your needs.  Without USB or a native optical/coax output, your best bet is the line-out option.  Basically, that bypasses the device's amplifier and sends the converted digital to analog signal straight to your external amplifier (like the mentioned E11).

 

PS- These are the only two things I could find: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1080p-4-port-hdmi-input-to-hdmi-optical-coaxial-audio-output-converter-100-240v-ac-16553?r=96035782 and http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Component-Ypbpr-Converter-v1-3b/dp/B002SFT3ZI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


Edited by Typhoon859 - 6/23/12 at 1:13pm
post #116 of 253

Thanx mate! well well.. That sucks.. But I guess my iPod classic could do the job too! :D

The only thing that really really really sucks is that Sony ****ed up the 3.5mm jack on my phone.. It's not like the standard ctia 3.5mm that's in most headphones and cables.. Instead they changed the "soundbands" on the plugs. I find it difficult to describe this..  so read this link for a better explanation .

Anyway my real master(portableRig)plan is like this = iPod Classic 5g 120Gb>Homemade LOD>Fiio E7>Flat 3.5mm from griffin>WeSC chambers by RzA :D
.

post #117 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeg View Post

Thanx mate! well well.. That sucks.. But I guess my iPod classic could do the job too! :D

The only thing that really really really sucks is that Sony ****ed up the 3.5mm jack on my phone.. It's not like the standard ctia 3.5mm that's in most headphones and cables.. Instead they changed the "soundbands" on the plugs. I find it difficult to describe this..  so read this link for a better explanation .

Anyway my real master(portableRig)plan is like this = iPod Classic 5g 120Gb>Homemade LOD>Fiio E7>Flat 3.5mm from griffin>WeSC chambers by RzA :D
.

I see..  Well, for this, unless you already have the E7, I still recommend the E11.  And just FYI, iPods have a better headphone output but the iTouch and iPhone have better DAC chips which equals better quality for line-out. 

 

Good luck!  Most importantly, enjoy your setup!

post #118 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post


To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right? 

 

Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.


no, thats not what i'm saying, you really need to do some reading on USB and how it works. All USB devices can either be set to host, or slave. the GSIII is unlikely to be able to be set as slave so we'll just talk about host.

 

for the GSIII and others to work with something that exceeds the current limit, but has its own power source, there are 3 options.

 

1. the device tells the GSIII that it has its own power when they are connected, during the signalling used to negotiate device type, speed of connection etc. it does this with a series of logic level signals on the power line. this logic signal may or may not be hardwired and thus not available as a software update

 

2. you supply power via an external powered hub.

 

3. you fluke it, the device works anyway despite exceeding the limit, perhaps because during start up it isnt exceeding the power limit, or it lies to the host. this connection may be 'fixed' in an update at any time if problems arise; or the device exceeds the power limit by whatever tolerance is allowed for an extensive length of time and is found out. the phone refuses the connection.

 

but I only mentioned the FIIO in passing, if at all, because its listed in Kojaku's screen shot posted a few pages back (at least I think it was his) and this confirmed my thoughts as to why some were working and some were not (the 100 mA not 100 mW power limit), for EXACTLY the same reasons that devices work with ipad or not.  this is part of the USB protocol, these connections and their power budget need to be negotiated and all things need to be in place for it to work, otherwise connecting your phone to a high power device could overheat or even kill your phone, or at the very least run the battery down in no time.


Edited by qusp - 6/23/12 at 9:14pm
post #119 of 253

Hi,

 

I am able to make s2 recognize FIIO e7 as USB audio but I can't redirect the audio stream to the DAC. Does anyone have the cue how I can make it happen?

 

I just flashed CM9/ASOP and then flashed SiyahKernel again. After connect e7 and s2 with OTG, s2 recognize the e7 and e7 also recognize s2 also.

 

Hope this information can help.

post #120 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawahwa View Post

Hi,

 

I am able to make s2 recognize FIIO e7 as USB audio but I can't redirect the audio stream to the DAC. Does anyone have the cue how I can make it happen?

 

I just flashed CM9/ASOP and then flashed SiyahKernel again. After connect e7 and s2 with OTG, s2 recognize the e7 and e7 also recognize s2 also.

 

Hope this information can help.

 

Thats a good news...Can you try fiddling with Dock Settings? It says 'Audio Output Mode - Use External speakers when device is docked' and I guess S2 will identify 'docked' status when any usb audio is connected to the port

 

Please let me know if you get through...

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