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'End-game' headphone rigs, unicorns and other myths - Page 6

post #76 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post

People are free to chase their own tails to their heart's content.  The issue turns problematic, however, when these tail-chasers anoint themselves the arbiters of audio quality by the mere virtue of having listened or owned some exobitantly priced equipment,  while proffering no independent, subjective verfication for their outlandish claims.  The issue turns problematic when these tail-chasers purport to be taken as authorities when their failure to acknowledge their cognitive biases and the limitations of human hearing comprimises their position from the outset.  The issue turns problematic when the tail-chasers hector and condescend those who refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.  The issue turns problematic when there is a conspiracy of idiocy that takes this state of affairs as normal or even desirable, and which acts in unison to suppress anyone wishing to add a bit of rationality to the debate.



Slow down with the blanket statements lol.  Not everything that is high end is snake oil, differences between DAC's, amplifiers, headphones and transports are very real and have been proven so.

 

Yes for some people "end game" gear means buying the equipment that has the lowest distortion or which has distortion below scientifically established noise floor.  You will also find that this attitude also tends to correlate with a general reluctance to invest large amounts of money into this hobby, which to me seems rather convenient.  If you want to get the most out of this hobby you have to trust your ears first and foremost, that's all I will say for now as to be honest I should probably not be discussing this as it borders on discussing a topic which is only really OK to discuss in the Sound Science forum.

 

You can infer that if "end game" means best specs and verifiable data for some people, conclusive technical function has been taken to be the ultimate purpose of musical equipment, when it is in actuality only the efficient purpose (that is, the means has been mistaken for the end.)

 

For example, you could spend all your life posting on head-fi and never gain a single piece of useful insight, and never make a decision which is informed by what you have read here (thus p***ing in a violin).  Success in any endeavor requires taking risks, in head-fi that risk is to trust your ears.  Or you could live on sound science forum and hydrogenaudiowink.gif


Edited by drez - 4/8/12 at 6:15am
post #77 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil3nce View Post


So you agree with me in that respect that it's not likely ever?
However, I might inquire upon your adamant proclamation that all "high-end" audiophiles suffer from this self-induced trap.
I don't believe it's everyone out there. And many of us are quite finicky and fickle when it comes down to shelling out hundreds if not thousands.
* I love C.C. All this time. Dedicated to you. <3
To make my 1,500 post in this thread:
After much delay on my part I might add.


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post



While you certainly make a point to some extent, I don't think you could be any more wrong in regards to the typical head-fi crowd who happens to own high priced gear. As has been said, for the most part, people are rather passionate and been getting to where they are through a long journey. You're pretty much treating these people as deep pocketed deaf dummies and this does not sound like the common profile over here. I could go as far as thinking, you're the one having some trouble with money (and or hearing) and possibly reacting angrily toward those who can afford more (possibly discern more). This is not a pissing contest for most passionate head-fiers.  And if it was, people simply would not stay that long (or at least, there's much more to spend over in the speaker world).



Collage288.jpgthe very end of anyones high end journey..perfection my friend. no headphone amp dac combo sound anything like this..a krell cypher super audio cd player..two krell evolution one amplifiers..krell evolution two preamp and westlake audio tower sm1 speakers..

 


Edited by our martin - 4/8/12 at 6:46am
post #78 of 286
Thread Starter 

Guys, the direction this thread has taken doesnt reflect my intentions in starting it, although obviously it has been taken as a forum for one Head-Fier to bang a drum that he has chosen to bang in several threads.

 

Its not about the money - its about the notion that you can spend the money once and walk away, for at least 5 years, as you would with a speaker rig. I believe that's a fallacy for as long as we keep coming back to the candy shop window - simple as that. Nothing to do with diminishing returns or elitism, so I'm not sure why said board member feels the need to bang his drum. 

 

Spend whatever you like, but don't tell yourself that 'someday I'll get off this carousel' -  you're here because you want to hang out with clowns and carnies.

 

'Welcome to the circus - now let me show you what needs to be done in the monkey cages'.   wink.gif

post #79 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Guys, the direction this thread has taken doesnt reflect my intentions in starting it, although obviously it has been taken as a forum for one Head-Fier to bang a drum that he has chosen to bang in several threads.

Its not about the money - its about the notion that you can spend the money once and walk away, for at least 5 years, as you would with a speaker rig. I believe that's a fallacy for as long as we keep coming back to the candy shop window - simple as that. Nothing to do with diminishing returns or elitism, so I'm not sure why said board member feels the need to bang his drum. 

Spend whatever you like, but don't tell yourself that 'someday I'll get off this carousel' -  you're here because you want to hang out with clowns and carnies.

'Welcome to the circus - now let me show you what needs to be done in the monkey cages'.   wink.gif

Yeah I'm not exactly sure what happened...
It was good up to a point.
post #80 of 286

I don't think (at least for me) there will ever be a end game rig. My apologies for the small post that's rather lacking in detail but once you become succumbed into the world that is Head-Fi, there is no turning back. If I had a Woo Audio WES and a SR-009, I wouldn't be done, I'd be looking at everything else. Never done.

post #81 of 286


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

I don't think (at least for me) there will ever be a end game rig. My apologies for the small post that's rather lacking in detail but once you become succumbed into the world that is Head-Fi, there is no turning back. If I had a Woo Audio WES and a SR-009, I wouldn't be done, I'd be looking at everything else. Never done.



I agree with what you are saying the woo audio wes and stax combo would be good but not the end of the road..the point i was getting across was when it sounds as good as krell and westlake audio then it would be the end game..

 


Edited by our martin - 4/8/12 at 12:52pm
post #82 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Applaus, fireworks, Chakraphons, waves crashing, etc.  If something can pass stuff like that, which not everything does regardless of price or status, I move on to music w/ sufficient layering, complexity and detail as a technical test and of how something responds to my specific genre bandwidth.  I can't really say there is any genre of music I don't or won't listen to.    

 

That's cool.  Part of me likes listening to everything (almost) and says, "Don't pick your music according to recording quality."  I tried that long time ago and it left me with a bunch of discs that I hardly listen to.  However, I realize now that there is so much music out there that even if you did pick from only well-recorded material you'd still have a lot to choose from.  I guess it's also why people who's listening centers around certain genres pursue the nice gear- and visa versa.  People who listen primarily to Top 40, electronic, etc. wouldn't benefit as much.  Also, even if only half of your music falls under the 'technically well-recorded' category, that's good enough to justify the pursuit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Its not about the money - its about the notion that you can spend the money once and walk away, for at least 5 years, as you would with a speaker rig. I believe that's a fallacy for as long as we keep coming back to the candy shop window - simple as that...


I think while that is partially why end-gamers do what they do (I know it's partially why I'm here biggrin.gif), it's not fair to say that's what it's all about to them.  Like everything in life, the answer is always somewhere in between.  I'm sure a large component is what they hear, while the rest is divided up into pieces including but not limited to: love for the gear, love for new things, and sure, maybe a little bit of prestige.  I would drive a Ferrari if there was no one else around to see me in it.  But I would be lying if I said I didn't feel something from the attention such a car would attract.  But I think prestige (and consumerism) is a relatively small part of the end-game for most.

post #83 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by our martin View Post


 



I agree with what you are saying the woo audio wes and stax combo would be good but not the end of the road..the point i was getting across was when it sounds as good as krell and westlake audio then it would be the end game..

 



Hmm, I still think that even even if was the best (which it never would be for everybody, or, universally speaking), that people would still explore around. I don't think that there will ever be a rig that sounds perfect universally, if you get what I mean. In other words, an end game rig for someone does exist, but for everybody? No.

post #84 of 286

I've hard some mixed reviews about the WES.  Could explain the need to explore around.  I've only heard one Stat amp I'd consider end game and you can't buy it.  You'd have to build it.

post #85 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

I've hard some mixed reviews about the WES.  Could explain the need to explore around.  I've only heard one Stat amp I'd consider end game and you can't buy it.  You'd have to build it.



Now you have me wondering. What stat amp that's considered end game that you'd have to build? I'd love to try the Raptor and the Lightning, I've heard glorious things about those two amps.

post #86 of 286

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

Now you have me wondering. What stat amp that's considered end game that you'd have to build? I'd love to try the Raptor and the Lightning, I've heard glorious things about those two amps.


He's probably referring to the T2.  Although some accounts I've read don't place it too far off from the BHSE in SQ.

post #87 of 286


In some circles I would agree with you. With Head-Fi though, my experience is that the richest/most spendy members tend to be the most light-hearted and least confrontational members as well. Basically, sure there's lots of snobs in hi-fi, but somehow Head-Fi seems to circumvent a lot of them. Usually the guys who own 70-odd some pairs of headphones are just having a bit of fun, and are happy to share their adventures with the rest of us. IDK, maybe you haven't gotten that impression. Maybe things have changed a whole lot in the last three years. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post

People are free to chase their own tails to their heart's content.  The issue turns problematic, however, when these tail-chasers anoint themselves the arbiters of audio quality by the mere virtue of having listened or owned some exobitantly priced equipment,  while proffering no independent, subjective verfication for their outlandish claims.  The issue turns problematic when these tail-chasers purport to be taken as authorities when their failure to acknowledge their cognitive biases and the limitations of human hearing compromises their position from the outset.  The issue turns problematic when the tail-chasers hector and condescend those who refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.  The issue turns problematic when there is a conspiracy of idiocy that takes this state of affairs as normal or even desirable, and which acts in unison to suppress anyone wishing to add a bit of rationality to the debate.

 

 



 


Okay here's my "doi stupid question of the day" - can someone tell me what "T2" stands for (I'm assuming it's an abbreviation, like BHSE)? From what I understand it's an absurdly expensive ES amp, but beyond that I've got nothing. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar3 View Post

Quote:


He's probably referring to the T2.  Although some accounts I've read don't place it too far off from the BHSE in SQ.



 

post #88 of 286

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Okay here's my "doi stupid question of the day" - can someone tell me what "T2" stands for (I'm assuming it's an abbreviation, like BHSE)? From what I understand it's an absurdly expensive ES amp, but beyond that I've got nothing. 

 

http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Stax_SRM-T2

 

Search "Stax SRM-T2" on the other forums.  Try the first link.


Edited by sridhar3 - 4/8/12 at 4:43pm
post #89 of 286

Oh...well...is that all? eek.gif

 

Thanks for the info.

 

 

 

post #90 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post

People are free to chase their own tails to their heart's content.  The issue turns problematic, however, when these tail-chasers anoint themselves the arbiters of audio quality by the mere virtue of having listened or owned some exobitantly priced equipment,  while proffering no independent, subjective verfication for their outlandish claims.  The issue turns problematic when these tail-chasers purport to be taken as authorities when their failure to acknowledge their cognitive biases and the limitations of human hearing compromises their position from the outset.  The issue turns problematic when the tail-chasers hector and condescend those who refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.  The issue turns problematic when there is a conspiracy of idiocy that takes this state of affairs as normal or even desirable, and which acts in unison to suppress anyone wishing to add a bit of rationality to the debate.


Umm, I just like listening to music on my headphones. Oh, and I often like looking at my tube amps while listening, because they look neat. smily_headphones1.gif

I've not encountered such ass-hattery on Head-Fi. In fact, the only brow-beating I've seen is usually directed AT the people with high end rigs. Kinda like what you're doing.
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