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'End-game' headphone rigs, unicorns and other myths - Page 3

post #31 of 286
In regards to the 009 being fatiguing with classical, could it be listening volume maybe? I also find the 007mk2 both darker but also a tiny bit metallic sounding relative to the 007, for some few recordings only.

I agree very much most of the magic resides in the source material and no gear in the world can turn junk into audio bliss...
post #32 of 286
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibuckhobby View Post

As long as people hold onto the idea that newer is always better and that the wonderful, near euphoric experience

they are seeking "may" be found in that new product, the end game will be a concept rather than a reality.  I've been

in the audio game for 45 years and even now...find myself wondering if I could reach that elusive next level if I bought 

something new.  I at times wonder if the words "better" and "different" shouldn't be used interchangeably here.

 

The only salvation found here is that you can get pretty close to the best available for 5k or so, depending on what you

regard as "best".  In home audio, you will spend more than that on a CD player or turntable alone.

Just sayin'

Hibuck...

 

I just dug up an older thread where Purrin reviewed the Eddie Current Super 7 and declared that it 'represents a minimum level of capability that is required for a headphone amplifier'. I'm not qualified to argue with that, but one of his other recommendations is a fully-upgraded WA5 : with S&H, Paypal tells me that comes to a shade over 5.5K. I know there are more expensive headphone amps, but my point is that you would still be a long way from 'the best' at 5K in 2012. Back in 2009, that would have seemed like a good figure - now, I suspect that 10K would be closer to the mark, and 15K if you want a top shelf source (Berkeley or similar level) to drive that SR-009/BHSE rig. Granted, 15K wont buy you much in the high-end speaker world, but its a long way from a pair of custom IEMs out of a DAP. 
 

 

post #33 of 286

Noted.  My point...which I stand by, is that for an amp and headphone combo,

you can get close enough to "the best" (which is in and of itself an ideal for one

person...the reviewer) with  5k that you are well past the point of diminishing returns.

 

In home audio...you have to spend much more to be at that point.  I've been there 

and done that.  How do "I" define that point?  By going to Hi-end stores, listening

to the "statement" systems and comparing them to what I have.

 

The fact that that people are constantly replacing/upgrading (?) their cans and

dacs and amps is not an indictment of the format (head-fi) but a demonstration

of the audiophilia nervosa that runs rampant in any pursuit of the end game.

Hibuck...

post #34 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

I don't know, I think I'm just not feeling it. People keep telling me that SR-009s are the end-all be-all, but overall I don't like them as much as my O2s.
I just don't think I can have an end game rig, I like different headphones and amps for different genres of music. I can pick and choose and dial in exactly what I want, and that means more to me than some setup that is supposedly excellent at everything.
What would you say if I told you that Krell is looking hard at the headphone market? wink.gif



if krell did make headphones they wouldn't be cheap but as the old saying goes you get what you pay for and with krell that's certainly the case..

 


Edited by our martin - 4/7/12 at 5:58am
post #35 of 286
Thread Starter 

@hibuckhobby - agree about the 'audiophilia nervosa'.   biggrin.gif

post #36 of 286

this is hifi end game..Collage288.jpgkrell and westlake audio..even nasa would be scratching there heads and saying how have they managed to do that then!  perfection


Edited by our martin - 4/7/12 at 3:56pm
post #37 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

You must hear differently than I do. I've heard both as well and concur with the graphs.
Thinking about this I have to say, there are variables at play here; different amps, listening several days apart, slightly different material, different environment, etc.. I can't say I prefer the O2s, all I can say is that given the circumstances, the O2s presented themselves in a better light. I really need to compare them directly to make a firm decision.
post #38 of 286

Magick Man (and others) --

 

I agree with your point on multiple rigs -- for sure no one is saying you only need one.  I didn't mean to imply that!  I only wanted to say we all should "stop upgrading" at some point.  Be happy with what you have, enjoy music and the people here, don't keep buying gear constantly.

 

I have certain CDs that "demand" certain phones -- that's why I keep them in addition to the Stax.   And collecting is different, that's why for years I hunted and fnally bagged an Orpheus (but not at today's insane prices), and would love to add an R10 ... but I am not thinking I will have better sound.  Let me re-phrase my point this way: There's listening to music, there's collecting vintage headphones for the same reason anyone collects anything vintage, and there's constantly upgrading.  All three are different activities.  Thumbs up on the first two, thumbs down on the third, and a suggestion to spend money on music and Head Fi friends instead.

 

And since this is turning in to an 007 vs 009 thread, let me add my opinion: I own O2 Mk1 and O2 Mk2 (Spritzer mod by Spritzer himself).  Both of these, with KGSS or 717, are slightly inferior on both orchestral works and (mostly female pop or jazz) vocalists to the Orpheus.  With Kerry's BHSE, both are superior, but each has a slight problem with smoothness of frequency response.  The 009's I have only heard at meets, with (a different unit but same tube complement) Kerry BHSE, and it seemed perfect.  IMHO only.

 

For rock, especially live concert albums, and for hard bop, uptempo pop and country, etc. I use dynamics, typically K1K but sometimes AD2K, HD800, beyer T1 or Denon D7K depending on the recording and whether or not I am alone in the room.  I will sell them all except the K1K at some point.  (Well I need a closed set so I'll keep the Denons until I score an R10).  I have them only because I kept "upgrading", which brings us back to the point of this thread.  I had HD600's, but "had" to get 800's.  I had beyer 880/600's but "had" to get T1's. I had Denon D2000 but "had" to get the 7000's.  Stupid stupid stupid.

 

 

post #39 of 286

Hey Larry, you coming to CanJam this year?

post #40 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar3 View Post

Hey Larry, you coming to CanJam this year?


YGPM
 

 

post #41 of 286
Going off a different tangent here. There's a big Bermuda triangle in anything headphone related for most of us discerning consumers. Nowhere is this most evident than the purported "audio apex" status gear ranging from 5k onwards. Beautiful audio reproduction should not be dependent on a high value-judgment affixed to the price. The old-ass adage that money can't buy enjoyment is particular true.
Sure my uncle has got a more technical capable setup with the very best audio treatment- that he didn't do a minute of research to obtain- but I'll be damned if that ole bastard [term of endearment] enjoys his music more than yours truly out of his humble setup.
post #42 of 286

I agree with currawong - it is a carousel. 

 

For me, the end-game really is just accepting that good enough is good enough, and any more money in either represents no benefit or is simply for fun (in other words, there's still a lot of random things I'd like to try, but I don't expect/demand them to be an improvement, it's just something I'd like to try out - like new foods). I think getting to that point is where most people struggle, and are instead chasing the unicorn of "just a bit better." 

 

 

post #43 of 286

So many points to agree with.

 

I have a rig I am absolutely happy with, and yet, have heard components that I think would improve my experience (SR-009, Perfect Wave DAC), but would I *enjoy* them any better, and within the confines of how I listen (3-5 hours at a time)? And, I am in the diminishing audio enjoyment mode, with declining listening capability AND tinitus. I will go down slugging like a certain composer who sawed off his piano legs so he could feel the vibration, even when he couldn't hear...

 

Point being, I am happy with what I have, even though I know, factually, changing components would probably yield a better result. I can afford to make the changes, but, agree to now just buy more music, while I have time. Way too bad MFSL stuff is just beyond crazy.

 

post #44 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

I agree with currawong - it is a carousel. 

For me, the end-game really is just accepting that good enough is good enough, and any more money in either represents no benefit or is simply for fun (in other words, there's still a lot of random things I'd like to try, but I don't expect/demand them to be an improvement, it's just something I'd like to try out - like new foods). I think getting to that point is where most people struggle, and are instead chasing the unicorn of "just a bit better." 


And it comes with a misconception. Most if not all can agree music is highly personalized. That's why coloring is even preferred by many people since neutral doesn't sound like anything.
People with money are told to purchase one of those "end-game rigs" to save themselves from upgrading. Little do they know their own preferences. Spending massive amounts of cash on that accurate reference medium because it's "better". In the end, they are no better.
post #45 of 286

Entirely agreed. Of the six sets of cans I currently own, I don't feel like any of them is more "absolutely accurate" - the point of getting "the most detail" or "most fidelity" out of music was passed long ago, instead, it's different coloration/presentations that they produce. That seems lost on people, and those slight differences are sometimes argued as improvements or losses in many cases, usually with the more expensive and different option being "better." Now sure, there are of course things I prefer out of a given set of cans, but that's again, preferential, not some sort of objective truth that dictates there is only one true way to listen to a song and enjoy it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil3nce View Post


And it comes with a misconception. Most if not all can agree music is highly personalized. That's why coloring is even preferred by many people since neutral doesn't sound like anything.
People with money are told to purchase one of those "end-game rigs" to save themselves from upgrading. Little do they know their own preferences. Spending massive amounts of cash on that accurate reference medium because it's "better". In the end, they are no better.


 

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