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O2 vs TOTL - Page 7

post #91 of 582

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post



But if you did, most Porche owners would be willing to race the Subaru and to test the measurements of the former vs. the latter, rather than wax lyrical about the Boxter's "technicalities", "refined power", etc.



Absolutely agree. Although no one debates the technicalities in the car industry anymore because cars have been around for so long they are are an open design for anyone to understand.

post #92 of 582
Thread Starter 
My phone is acting funky, so forgive my lack of quotes.

Thumbs up to Matt smily_headphones1.gif I'm glad you have found my thread useful in some way.
W
To shubar, sounds pretty accurate. I'm glad I actually got a few relevant answers (but I am also happy to talk OT).

To estreeter, I love and hate you man. I certainly wasn't trying to throw anything in anyone's face.. just asking a question. I understand where you are coming from though. Also, my name sucks.. I would change it, if I could. I am happy with my amp, but curious about high end stuff and about the opinions of the people who own high end stuff. You are correct though, asking opinions kind of goes against what V preaches.. luckily, I don't care. I'm cool with subjective opinions and I don't shoot them down. I agree, the mods have been tolerant, and yes, I knew some people would kick up dust, but I wanted to ask a question. So, I did. I didn't say O2 is better than TOTL, discuss. I said, O2 vs TOTL, discuss. There is a difference, I do believe.

Darksleip, Interesting findings :-) thanks for sharing mate.
Edited by chrislangley4253 - 4/12/12 at 12:53am
post #93 of 582

Question I have for you is why just O2 vs TOTL and not O2 vs everything else?

post #94 of 582

Feel free to hate me - Mauricio does.  rolleyes.gif

post #95 of 582

Some people hear a difference comparing the Obj2 with "TOTL", and some don't, but can't people just give it a freaking try themselves to see where they stand?

 

Personally, I couldn't tell the Obj2 from the b22 in a two hour long casual sighted level matched comparison blablabla LCD-2. Was I trying really really hard? Yes, purely to try and one up the rabid Obj2 fanboys not really. tongue.gif

 

I don't go tripping up all in someones grill just because they've had a different experience to me. I still don't get how people can get so worked up over a hobby that's supposed to be about ENJOYING SOMETHING.

 

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong. frown.gif

post #96 of 582


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubar View Post

Question I have for you is why just O2 vs TOTL and not O2 vs everything else?

Because the owners are a somewhat interesting demographic group in the audiophile society and may provide interesting opinions to the matter of question: Is the O2 at or beyond the threshold of audible transparency already?

post #97 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post



But if you did, most Porche owners would be willing to race the Subaru and to test the measurements of the former vs. the latter, rather than wax lyrical about the Boxter's "technicalities", "refined power", etc.


911 Turbo owners might, but most Boxster owners would know better than to line up against a WRX or similar. I'm not knocking the Boxster - I can see the niche that it fills - but you'll find that its biggest critics come from within the Porsche fraternity. I'll take a Corvette over any of the above. 

 

post #98 of 582

Corvette, plastic, yuck.

post #99 of 582

Things would be so pleasant if this were a car enthusiast forum. frown.gif

 

Just Kidding.

post #100 of 582

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

 

CCIF is the 19 kHz + 20 kHz test; SMPTE is the 60 Hz + 7 kHz test.  Rumor has it that there are such tests published for the O2, at an output level of 400 mV, into 15 and 150 ohms respectively, for both those IMD tests.  You might have to look into the deep, dark recesses of the Internet to find those, from some arcane posting in the month of July.  Good luck navigating past the walls of text and apparently-related pictures of wine bottles and cars first.


hehe TBH I dont care. I wrote in this topic cuz i was bored last night :D

I'm not going to buy the O2, it's just not my cup of tea.

 

post #101 of 582

.


Edited by telecaster - 4/13/12 at 4:31am
post #102 of 582
Quote:

Originally Posted by painter View Post

 

Do people know that a design like the O2 creates several magnitudes more distortion than a Single Ended Triode amp ?    How can that be and it measure so well?   Well the O2 design cancels its internal distortion with very heavy Negative Feedback.  I built an O2 and yes it does a great job of cancelling its high distortion with NFB without resorting to such a high bandwidth that it is susceptible to oscillation,  it is a unique design, very very black background  and perfect if you think the job is done at the headphone jack.

 

Why do you think the O2 creates several orders of magnitude more distortion ? This might have been true of obsolete, very low-end, incorrectly used, or non-audio op-amps, but decent modern ones have reasonably low distortion even without negative feedback. Check here for some examples; note that this PDF shows the performance of op-amps with significantly reduced negative feedback (by a ratio of ~1000, basically open loop at very high frequency). Additionally, why would anyone care about some theoretical distortion that would occur without feedback, when the only thing that matters is what actually appears on the output ?

 


Edited by stv014 - 4/12/12 at 2:48am
post #103 of 582


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

 I enjoy my Meridians and it's most likely you will never listen to such a system so why bother! 



If this is not elitism then I don't know what is.

post #104 of 582

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post
I enjoy my Meridians and it's most likely you will never listen to such a system so why bother! Be OK with what you got but if you don't search for better that's it boys!


Thanks! I forgot to include my old meridian in the "colored amps" list :D

Which model do you have, btw?

 

post #105 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telstar View Post

Currawong is very much right about how measurements are done. Multitone and IMD are much more representative of real music signals performance than THD at 1khz with a sine sweep. Here is where "class A", low or "no GNFB", "all discrete design", etc stops of being audio gimmicks and reveal their strenghts.

I would like to see those tests performed on a O2.

 

This is probably what you are looking for:

O2%252520AC%252520IMD%252520CCIF%252520400%252520mV%252520150%252520Ohms%252520Vol%252520%25253D%25252050%252525_thumb.png?imgmax=800    O2%252520AC%252520IMD%252520CCIF%252520400%252520mV%25252015%252520Ohms%252520Vol%252520%25253D%25252050%252525_thumb.png?imgmax=800

It should have been measured at the maximum output level to fully stress the amplifier for slew rate, though. However, it is likely that the performance would have been good even then anyway. I did the same test with my Xonar D1 sound card using a loopback cable and 220 Ohm simulated load at the maximum output level (~2 Vrms), and the result was similarly low distortion, and it was still low even if I increased the frequency into the ultrasonic range. The card uses NE5532 op-amps. Really, this slew related distortion issue was relevant 40 years ago, but with competently designed current amplifiers, it is more of a myth than a real problem.

 

I do not show the SMPTE IMD test, but the result is excellent, and this test does not seem to really challenge modern solid state amplifiers, with the exception of some lousy ones.

 

Edit: added 15 Ohm version


Edited by stv014 - 4/12/12 at 3:14am
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