Originally Posted by Telstar
Currawong is very much right about how measurements are done. Multitone and IMD are much more representative of real music signals performance than THD at 1khz with a sine sweep. Here is where "class A", low or "no GNFB", "all discrete design", etc stops of being audio gimmicks and reveal their strenghts.
I would like to see those tests performed on a O2.
totally been done. I'm sure V would post them just for you if you asked.
Originally Posted by Shubar
Seriously, who cares. If you like the O2 and or TOTL, it's your business and no one elses. Why do people feel such a compelling need to justify their purchases and put down each others with different experiences or views?
I do, because I'm curious what TOTL users have to say about the O2.
That's why I started the thread.
Originally Posted by Lil' Knight
Out of curiosity, I built the O2 a couple weeks again. It sounds great, but nothing spectacular.
The fact is only people who own the O2 care about comparing it about TOTL stuff, but ones who own TOTL don't really care wth the O2 is.
Disagree, most TOTL owners have tried the O2, why wouldn't they? What with all it's praise and cheapness... You'd be dumb to not give it a shot.
Originally Posted by mikeaj
Underneath the whole deal with post-purchase rationalization, buyer's remorse, and whatever kind of motivations you want to ascribe, I think there is a question of great significance buried underneath:
"What is the purpose of the high-end audio market?" [though here it may be prudent to separate the headphones market with the rest of the gear]
maverickronin left some thoughts on this matter earlier. There are of course other interpretations as well.
fantastic question, and yes.. It's the one I find myself asking.. Is there a point into delving into supposed "end game" rigs? or have I hit diminishing returns? Other people are certainly asking this of the O2.
Originally Posted by painter
Where electrical engineers, sound engineers, objectivists, and audiophiles all disagree is the concept of Negative Feedback. You can't measure an amp on its own and determine much at all.
Do people know that a design like the O2 creates several magnitudes more distortion than a Single Ended Triode amp ? How can that be and it measure so well? Well the O2 design cancels its internal distortion with very heavy Negative Feedback. I built an O2 and yes it does a great job of cancelling its high distortion with NFB without resorting to such a high bandwidth that it is susceptible to oscillation, it is a unique design, very very black background and perfect if you think the job is done at the headphone jack.
But I don't think things end there. Thorsten Loesch posted an excellent article that shows huge amounts of 2H distortion added (or subtracted) by the ear, no one knows how it works.
But it isn't too far fetched to imagine that a more accurate amplifier is one which is linear in amplification without NFB, possible our perception is part of the feedback loop ? Chew on that.
If thats the case then the old roaring 20's direct heated triode designs just might be more "neutral" and maybe Lynn Olsen knows a bit more about acoustics than a recent EE grad with a dScope.
But then again I could be wrong, all I care is my high efficient phones sound better out of my SET amp than my O2. But the O2 is a fine fine stable stable low noise design and kicks the snot out of the SET with inefficient phones just don't think its the end all be all of neutrality.
There is a mid-buck DIY SS alternative to the O2 brewing that is similiat to the old Sansui/Pioneer integrated topology for power hungry phones, can't wait to put it together. These disagreements and non obsolutes are what make this hobby interesting and fun.
Interesting idea.... I don't agree with it, but I follow your logic.
Originally Posted by telecaster
The whole point of the so called "agressive" reactions is because this thread was posted in the High end forum in the first place and then seeing all the negative responses there and the complete lack of experience and pointless responses from the person who openned the thread. Why say this what looks to be a decent amp should compete if you don't listen to a high end pair of cans and a high en DAC? If you dont believe the latters should have an impact then you don't belong in high end audio.
Other than that we can discuss the O2 qualities and such. But comparing it to the high end stuff is the error in the first place.
It was posted in High-End to get opinions from people who owned High-End gear.. How better should I get their attention? Should I ask them independently via PM if they own an O2 and what they think of it?
In all honesty, I'm not sure why this was moved.. I think this should be relevant to high end gear. But, I'm fine with it being here too. It works under this category.
Also, how am I completely lacking experience? The pointless thing, is an opinion... But, I'm clearly not completely lacking experience. I haven't personally owned anything "high-end", does that alone make me ill-experienced and not worthy of asking a question to people who do own "high end"? Also, I'm pretty sure most people would say my magnums are end game material, upon hearing them.. I find it hard to believe I'll ever find anything better. Willing to give the HE 500s a shot, whenever I can though.
I never said they "should compete". Rather asked other people their opinions on how the two compare. People who ideally own high end cans and dacs.
How the heck is comparing things error? I can compare anything I want.. KSC 75 vs Grado HF2... Guess what? the KSC 75 shows a LOT more value :) Both sound good.
Originally Posted by proton007
maybe if I meditate deep in the himalayas I will become worthy of that knowledge some day
Nah, you just have to spend LOTS of money.
Edited by chrislangley4253 - 4/11/12 at 11:21pm