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Denon D7100?! - Page 67  

post #991 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

The hd800 is also less neutral than the hd600 (according to general consensus). Although that's not too obvious from graph.

There's a general consensus on Head-fi? tongue.gif

 

The HD600s are great cans, but they are not more neutral than the HD800s. They really lack in the bass department IMO to be considered spot on neutral. Then there's the imaging thing...they aren't even close.

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=573&graphID[]=863

post #992 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

There's a general consensus on Head-fi? tongue.gif

ok, that's overstated.

But if you look at goldenear website, they consider the hd800 as very bright, according to the

treble relative to midrange rating (5/5  , 0 is neutral)

 

http://en.goldenears.net/4326


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 9/29/12 at 9:09am
post #993 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

ok, that's overstated.

But if you look at

goldenear website, they consider the hd800 as very bright, according to the

treble relative to midrange rating (5/5  , 0 is neutral)

 

http://en.

goldenear s.net/4326

Funny, my ears (and the measurements above) show the HD600s as "brighter". I usually don't give that website much credence for silly commends like this.

post #994 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Funny, my ears (and the measurements above) show the HD600s as "brighter". I usually don't give that website much credence for silly commends like this.

And there are countless post of people here complaining that the hd800 are too  bright.

post #995 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

And there are countless post of people here complaining that the hd800 are too  bright.

 

Countless? Most who complain about the HD800's being bright have likely not taken the time to look into what they were feeding them in terms of source/dac/amp. Garbage in = garbage out.

 

Can the HD800s sound bright/thin on substandard gear? Sure, but why would one invest $1500 in a headphone and then skimp on the upstream gear. confused.gif Get that portion "right" and the HD800s will reward you in spades. I would reckon that most who have "heard" the HD800s have not heard them on a proper rig. But that's just my first hand experiences.

post #996 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Countless? Most who complain about the HD800's being bright have likely not taken the time to look into what they were feeding them in terms of source/dac/amp. Garbage in = garbage out.

 

Can the HD800s sound bright/thin on substandard gear? Sure, but why would one invest $1500 in a headphone and then skimp on the upstream gear. confused.gif Get that portion "right" and the HD800s will reward you in spades. I would reckon that most who have "heard" the HD800s have not heard them on a proper rig. But that's just my first hand experiences.

 

My experience with the hd800 is that they are mildly bright, but it's not annoying because the treble bump is very smooth.

So I conceive that both can happen:  people that are more annoyed than other regarding that brightness, and depending of the music genre.

post #997 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

 

My experience with the hd800 is that they are mildly bright, but it's not annoying because the treble bump is very smooth.

So I conceive that both can happen:  people that are more annoyed than other regarding that brightness, and depending of the music genre.

 

I stand by my comments on upstream gear and think many haven't really "heard" the HD800s at or close to their best. Are the HD800s brighter than my LCD-3s? Sure, but that's relative. I find the HD600s brighter still. 

post #998 of 1913

The huge difference is the THD numbers, on average, the TH900 is so much cleaner than the D7100. That makes a huge difference.

Also, Innerfidelity's charts are a little easier to read and analyze (TH900 on the right, D7100 on the left):



No huge peaks and valleys in the treble for the TH900, very smooth, very neutral.

Now, THD:



Holy snap. Almost 5% THD in the upper bass for the D7100, and an average of nearly 1%. eek.gif That's audible and distracting for anyone, and it drove me bonkers. The TH900 caps at ~0.8% THD, but averages 0.4%. The TH900, depending on where you look on the chart, can be as much as 8x cleaner than the Denons.

I was surprised when I first saw the TH900 FR chart, but finally grasped what is going on, and Purrin voiced the same thing. The THD numbers are so low in the bass region, you need more bass output for them to sound natural and balanced. Despite a perceived similarity between the two FR charts, they don't correlate at all when actually listening to the headphones. smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by Magick Man - 9/29/12 at 9:38am
post #999 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

 The THD numbers are so low in the bass region, you need more bass output for them to sound natural and balanced.

This kind of reasoning is new to me.

So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

post #1000 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

This kind of reasoning is new to me.
So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

The TH900s don't need EQ, at all. Whereas, the D7100 won't benefit much from it, because of the unusually pronounced distortion. It may help a little, but it isn't something you'd expect with $1200 headphones.
post #1001 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

This kind of reasoning is new to me.

So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


The TH900s don't need EQ, at all. Whereas, the D7100 won't benefit much from it, because of the unusually pronounced distortion. It may help a little, but it isn't something you'd expect with $1200 headphones.

 

That's the big problem I have with equalization...typically it adds to more distortion. Not a good thing!

post #1002 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

 

That's the big problem I have with equalization...typically it adds to more distortion. Not a good thing!

What about linear phase EQ ?  They are supposed to limit phase distortions, from what I've understood.

post #1003 of 1913
Little overview about EQ, also about: “What is the reason for linear-phase EQ? “What is linear phase, and how does it relate to a minimum-phase EQ? “Why are linear-phase EQs so directed toward mastering?” “Can there be a hardware linear-phase EQ? Why or why not?” http://theproaudiofiles.com/linear-phase-vs-minimum-phase-eq/
post #1004 of 1913

A FR graph hardly gives the whole story.  It can give an idea of flavor, but it doesn't tell you everything else that would tell you how good a headphone is.

post #1005 of 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagothur View Post

A FR graph hardly gives the whole story.  It can give an idea of flavor, but it doesn't tell you everything else that would tell you how good a headphone is.

 

I would say that "idea of flavor" is pretty important... It really helps me to realise I have no interest in phones like HD800 or T1, Hifiman, Grado, Audio Technica without having to judge on subjective comments only. But I agree it is not everything.

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