Denon D7100?! - Page 86

I DO NOT understand these headphones. I am using them with my Colorly C4. Maybe they are settling down or something, some tunes sound truly excellent, just what I want, as long as I have the "right" EQ setting on the Colorfly. If I have it on "Normal" most of the time I am impressed. But not all of the time. Some frequencies are clearly not being handled very well by these headphones. I now have a technician spurring off the analogue from the C4 into a scope that costs 100 times more than the headphones, I need to get to the bottom of this, it is bothering me as sometimes they sound a million dollars and sometimes I find myself surfing around here looking for something a lot better. The former is great, the latter is confusing me as with some tunes they honestly, to me, sound terrible...

Right now I have the James Holden remix of Nathan Fake's "The Sky was Pink" pink playing with the EQ on Bass, and it is beautiful, the frequencies are being handled perfectly and the bass is phenomenal, I am not saying it is the best in the world, but it as good as I have heard from headphones. Then I can flick to another track with the same EQ setting and what I know are similar frequencies and they sound like something you get handed on a flight when you sit at the back of a plane. The difference is that big.

I can be objective when I have the scope hooked up and tuned properly, but subjectively I am starting to think that it might just possibly be the production values or quality of the producer and the kit used to make the music. I know that Holden is a ridiculous perfectionist when it comes to production values. However I also know that "Burial" is also. If I put on that self titled album with the EQ on bass, I may as well just take a jackhammer to my head, I really can hear nothing but heavily distorted bass. I switch the EQ to "Normal" and it all comes good, really really good. I know my wavelengths, I know I cant distinguish exactly between them by just listening, I need the scope, but there is something weird going on. I know that the frequency is similar across both tracks, probably not the same of course but similar, but the results are so different. I know that the production values are high from both Artists. Why does one sound awful and the other fantastic on the same EQ.

It has to be a frequency that is present in some tracks that these things don't like. Or some kind of harmonic clash.

I will find the guilty frequency band, by listening and watching. Then I will either admit that I have a defective pair or write to Denon with my findings as well as post them on here.

I didn't notice this before at all, could this be part of the burn in process?

TBH, the cans being defective doesn't sound plausible at this point because "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected right?  Surely if the cans were defective, they wouldn't be selectively defective for certain tracks and not others. 

Nonetheless, you should definitely try and get to the bottom of it of course.  And for as long as "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected, I'd use that as the control for your subjective listening tests.

For these cans (IMO) burn-in does change the signature quite noticeably.  But until you perceive that change in your control track, I'd look elsewhere for a culprit.  After all, it's not like you're saying that "Burial" sounds different over time right?

BTW, is the D7100 your first pair of high end cans (other than Grados)?  I ask because it is common knowledge that the more detailed your cans are, the more revealing they can be of flaws in your source.

BTW Guys, so how exactly the sound signature is changing with burn-in. How are they different after 150+ hours?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebna 

BTW Guys, so how exactly the sound signature is changing with burn-in. How are they different after 150+ hours?

For me, the general change was that the overall brightness was diminished.  And the bass became looser, slower, less detailed.  I also noticed somewhat of a recession in the lower mids before burn-in.  That seems to have gone away as I heard a much more evened-out presentation of mids after burn-in.  Soundstage was relatively unaffected outside of losing some airyness.  TBH, I liked it more before the changes.

BTW, for anyone that gripes about how nothing ever sounds worse after burn-in... here is just such a case of that, at least IMO.

Somewhere around here, I've got more detailed notes jotted down regarding my impressions pre and post burn-in.  I can find them right now (which is a bummer), but I'll come back and post them if/when I do.  The above is the gist of it though IIRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi 

TBH, the cans being defective doesn't sound plausible at this point because "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected right?  Surely if the cans were defective, they wouldn't be selectively defective for certain tracks and not others. 

 

Nonetheless, you should definitely try and get to the bottom of it of course.  And for as long as "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected, I'd use that as the control for your subjective listening tests.

 

For these cans (IMO) burn-in does change the signature quite noticeably.  But until you perceive that change in your control track, I'd look elsewhere for a culprit.  After all, it's not like you're saying that "Burial" sounds different over time right?

 

BTW, is the D7100 your first pair of high end cans (other than Grados)?  I ask because it is common knowledge that the more detailed your cans are, the more revealing they can be of flaws in your source.

SIR! Thanks so much for that....your intuition is 100% correct....

Yes these are my first pair of high end cans, and of course if I only had broken it down I could have come to the same conclusion. However what I have discovered is that for some reason if I change the sampling on the Colorfly then this changes a lot also, which points towards flaws in the original production, or the fashion in which it has been converted.

Another event also happened yesterday that gave me a bit of a wake up call. I know that Bose is looked down upon and not considered to be Audiophile kit, however a colleague noticed my weird looking player and was asking questions about it, which I answered as best I could. He then brought his Bose "Quiet Comfort" cans up proudly and said "Wait till you hear it through these". OK, I have an open mind.

Plugged them in, pressed play and then realized that these may not be the best cans in the world, I could do better, but they are certainly in a different league all together than those things. I couldn't believe how awful they sounded, OK yes it is just my opinion, but I played the same track to him through the Denon's and he agreed that he had pretty much thrown his money away (I do that too)... :)

It was nice and reassuring though that my money had gone somewhere for sure. I have been loitering on here for a while now and it is ridiculously addictive. Amazon UK are also having a sale on a lot of pretty high end cans, luckily these are not included in the UK. However there is 40% off a lot of cans that are reviewed on here. There is no UK meet until April and I might not be in the UK until then.

So I thought, well....Instant gratification counts for something and anything that had a great saving on it with decent reviews on here, and I read them all...I just bought.

So now on their way are:

AKG K550

AKG K702

Beyerdynamic DT770

And a load of stands. Hey why do things by halves??

They actually have even more on sale, and if I manage to get to the end of the day without buying more, it will be a miracle....

The Denons are changing, there is no doubt about it...

People of course are entitled to their own opinion...and I respect all of them...and I know I could have got them cheaper...but you know what I am now really starting to love them...they are on nearly all day...

Goodness I am just listening to another track that I listen to a lot, and listened to only a few days ago...change...I should make notes...

I suppose the best thing though, whatever price I paid, is that I am falling in love with sound all over again...and have fellow intelligent people to talk to about it.

That is what really rocks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi 

TBH, the cans being defective doesn't sound plausible at this point because "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected right?  Surely if the cans were defective, they wouldn't be selectively defective for certain tracks and not others. 

 

Nonetheless, you should definitely try and get to the bottom of it of course.  And for as long as "The Sky was Pink" continues to sound as expected, I'd use that as the control for your subjective listening tests.

 

For these cans (IMO) burn-in does change the signature quite noticeably.  But until you perceive that change in your control track, I'd look elsewhere for a culprit.  After all, it's not like you're saying that "Burial" sounds different over time right?

 

BTW, is the D7100 your first pair of high end cans (other than Grados)?  I ask because it is common knowledge that the more detailed your cans are, the more revealing they can be of flaws in your source.

SIR! Thanks so much for that....your intuition is 100% correct....

Yes these are my first pair of high end cans, and of course if I only had broken it down I could have come to the same conclusion. However what I have discovered is that for some reason if I change the sampling on the Colorfly then this changes a lot also, which points towards flaws in the original production, or the fashion in which it has been converted.

Another event also happened yesterday that gave me a bit of a wake up call. I know that Bose is looked down upon and not considered to be Audiophile kit, however a colleague noticed my weird looking player and was asking questions about it, which I answered as best I could. He then brought his Bose "Quiet Comfort" cans up proudly and said "Wait till you hear it through these". OK, I have an open mind.

Plugged them in, pressed play and then realized that these may not be the best cans in the world, I could do better, but they are certainly in a different league all together than those things. I couldn't believe how awful they sounded, OK yes it is just my opinion, but I played the same track to him through the Denon's and he agreed that he had pretty much thrown his money away (I do that too)... :)

It was nice and reassuring though that my money had gone somewhere for sure. I have been loitering on here for a while now and it is ridiculously addictive. Amazon UK are also having a sale on a lot of pretty high end cans, luckily these are not included in the UK. However there is 40% off a lot of cans that are reviewed on here. There is no UK meet until April and I might not be in the UK until then.

So I thought, well....Instant gratification counts for something and anything that had a great saving on it with decent reviews on here, and I read them all...I just bought.

So now on their way are:

AKG K550

AKG K702

Beyerdynamic DT770

And a load of stands. Hey why do things by halves??

They actually have even more on sale, and if I manage to get to the end of the day without buying more, it will be a miracle....

The Denons are changing, there is no doubt about it...

People of course are entitled to their own opinion...and I respect all of them...and I know I could have got them cheaper...but you know what I am now really starting to love them...they are on nearly all day...

Goodness I am just listening to another track that I listen to a lot, and listened to only a few days ago...change...I should make notes...

I suppose the best thing though, whatever price I paid, is that I am falling in love with sound all over again...and have fellow intelligent people to talk to about it.

That is what really rocks!

OWNERS OF 7100 DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL (and start a riot defending your headphones)

Today I got my Denon 7100 headphones.

First impressions: horrible.

I don't want to comment the sound because I don't have so much experience with headphones, I only own Sennheiser hd595.

I will share my opinion on built quality.

They don't look and feel like $1200 headphones, never ever.

The "leather" on the top feels very fragile and I don't think it will last very long, the bad part is that it can't be replaced.

I have a normal male size head but the headphones jiggle very hard at any little move and I always feel like they are about to fell from my head.

They are too width.

The right wood cup is wider than the left one. I looked very close and this is how they are. 

On the left the wood cup touches the plastic frame, in the right there is a small clearance as it should be.

The built quality at this price is not acceptable for me.

I paid 600 euro delivery included and feel ripped off.



Please take my opinion at it is and don't start text analysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberspine 

OWNERS OF 7100 DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL (and start a riot defending your headphones)

Today I got my Denon 7100 headphones.

First impressions: horrible.

I don't want to comment the sound because I don't have so much experience with headphones, I only own Sennheiser hd595.

I will share my opinion on built quality.

They don't look and feel like $1200 headphones, never ever.

The "leather" on the top feels very fragile and I don't think it will last very long, the bad part is that it can't be replaced.

I have a normal male size head but the headphones jiggle very hard at any little move and I always feel like they are about to fell from my head.

They are too width.

The right wood cup is wider than the left one. I looked very close and this is how they are. 

On the left the wood cup touches the plastic frame, in the right there is a small clearance as it should be.

The built quality at this price is not acceptable for me.

I paid 600 euro delivery included and feel ripped off.



Please take my opinion at it is and don't start text analysis.

I think the difference in wood cups is because they are hand carved. Could it be your head is on the smaller side?

about cups you may be right but they could match them.

I think/hope my head is normal size.

With every track i listen the sound becomes better.

I have one week to decide if I keep them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberspine 

I have one week to decide if I keep them.

Well, coming from the hd595, I wouldn't be surprised that you'd keep your d7100. The hd595 can be so boring, I'm not sure the comparison would be fair .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespertine 

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi 

BTW, is the D7100 your first pair of high end cans (other than Grados)?  I ask because it is common knowledge that the more detailed your cans are, the more revealing they can be of flaws in your source.

SIR! Thanks so much for that....your intuition is 100% correct.... Yes these are my first pair of high end cans

  Just checking...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vespertine 

Another event also happened yesterday that gave me a bit of a wake up call. I know that Bose is looked down upon and not considered to be Audiophile kit, however a colleague noticed my weird looking player and was asking questions about it, which I answered as best I could. He then brought his Bose "Quiet Comfort" cans up proudly and said "Wait till you hear it through these". OK, I have an open mind.

 

Plugged them in, pressed play and then realized that these may not be the best cans in the world, I could do better, but they are certainly in a different league all together than those things. I couldn't believe how awful they sounded, OK yes it is just my opinion, but I played the same track to him through the Denon's and he agreed that he had pretty much thrown his money away (I do that too)... :)

Oops, don't let obobskivich hear (read) you say that.  He's a buddy of mine that tends to think Bose cans get more of a lashing than they deserve around here.  I'm sure you'll run into him sooner or later.

+1  There's just so much to explore and learn about.  I've completely dismissed the notion that there is a destination, it's all about the journey for me. 

Where are you headed?  There are meets everywhere right now as this seems to be the season.  You should stop by the meet-up forum to see if there will be one wherever you'll be:  http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers

  Whoa!  I haven't heard the K550, so I won't be of any help to you there.  I've got a Q701 so I may be able to approximate some of what you'll be hearing through the K702.  They're not exactly the same, but close enough I think.

I do happen to have a DT770 Pro here (on loan to me).  Based on what you've been saying about how you like the D7100, I think that you might like the DT880 better.  But that's just my two cents.  But then again, the DT770 is closed-back, which might be a requirement for you.

Your wallet is gonna hate me, but http://www.head-fi.org/t/651409/the-deals-thread-ii-read-the-first-post

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberspine 

Today I got my Denon 7100 headphones.
 
First impressions: horrible.
 
I don't want to comment the sound because I don't have so much experience with headphones, I only own Sennheiser hd595.
 
I will share my opinion on built quality.
 
They don't look and feel like $1200 headphones, never ever.
 
The "leather" on the top feels very fragile and I don't think it will last very long, the bad part is that it can't be replaced.
 
I have a normal male size head but the headphones jiggle very hard at any little move and I always feel like they are about to fell from my head.
 
They are too width.
 
The right wood cup is wider than the left one. I looked very close and this is how they are. 
 
On the left the wood cup touches the plastic frame, in the right there is a small clearance as it should be.
 
The built quality at this price is not acceptable for me.

Well that sucks...   BTW, if you think they might be defective in some way, definitely shouldn't keep them and try to "make it work" so to speak.  You should return them (or at least exchange them for another pair).

Quote:

Originally Posted by viralcow 

Could it be your head is on the smaller side?

LOL. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberspine 

With every track i listen the sound becomes better.

I have one week to decide if I keep them.

If this is true, then you might end up liking them very much.  I would suggest using them as much as you can during the course of the week.  You don't have to listen to them, you can simply run them during the day at home while you're out.  As mentioned before, these sound noticeably different after they have been burned-in. 

@viralcow

Ouch, I feel for you.. :)... Can you return ? for that price HifiMan HE500 or Beyerdynamic T70/90 is a better choice in europe ?

Not only d7100 but also d600 seem like they are not meant for smaller heads. I believe myself I have a normal male head too, but d600 is sitting on my head at tightest adjustment. At first, it was quite unsettling as I can have no play with the headband, but after a while, I get used to it. But seriously you just cant wear this phones and walk the street, they will be loose and wobbling on your head. pretty much opposite to what Denon markets them as on the go use with smartphones.

The design is questionable indeed. I have a fairly big/long head myself and anywhere below one notch down on the adjustment bars would be too loose. However I can still get it to fit enough for portable use, which is what I mainly use it for.